Assistance programming

[Goosey]

Oh, another low back exercise is the good morning performed while sitting on a bench since this disables the hams to a greater degree.
Be sure to start very light since the greatest stress to the erectors will be in the bent forward position.

 

[wingman]

Have you heard of g rows goosey?

 

[Bazza20]

From what I have read round back goodmornings used to be popular for what you describe but not really popular now because of the fears of any round back lifts these days.

 

[0ni]

Oh, another low back exercise is the good morning performed while sitting on a bench since this disables the hams to a greater degree.
Be sure to start very light since the greatest stress to the erectors will be in the bent forward position.

I really like this exercise

 

[The Hamburgler]

Seated good mornings make for funny YouTube comment threads

 

[Hanna_Bolic]

OK first the ATP. You're correct that CP will take over after just a few seconds but after you rest the glycogen stores (which are bigger from eating more) will restore ATP. It's not making you STRONGER as such but increasing your work capacity a whole bunch. Hope this answers that. If not I can find some other sources but here is a start:
LIFT-RUN-BANG: Developing your raw bench - Part 1

I agree with you on the sticking point issue. Although I wouldn't call it "muscular weakness", I think this encourages "weak point training". Really it's just developing the muscular base that is needed for developing the lift. Targetting the weak part of the ROM did not work for me AT ALL, until I started thinking that the first part of the lift was the "weak point" and started pausing my benches, pausing my squats and doing my deadlifts from a mechanical disadvantage. I think anything that increases the ROM of the lift (close grip benching, deficit deadlifts, deep squats etc) will benefit the raw lift. Partials however I do not. Unless it's from a mechanical disadvantage and you're actually lifting LESS (example deadlifts from mid shin). Just how I feel

Hi. Can I just get clarification. I know what ATP and Glycogen are. But can you please just clarify what the CP is you are referring to. Thanks

 

[The Hamburgler]

I'm no Oni but I think it's Creatine Phosphate.

Also, to add into the Assistance Programming debate. My 2c is that the more you rely on assistance in your programming the less margin for error you have in your programming compared to if your program is focused on frequency/volume of the lifts you're trying to improve

 

[Brick]

I'm no Oni but I think it's Creatine Phosphate.

Also, to add into the Assistance Programming debate. My 2c is that the more you rely on assistance in your programming the less margin for error you have in your programming compared to if your program is focused on frequency/volume of the lifts you're trying to improve

Fuck thats some wise arse sensible shit.

 

[Goosey]

Have you heard of g rows goosey?

No

 

[Goosey]

From what I have read round back goodmornings used to be popular for what you describe but not really popular now because of the fears of any round back lifts these days.

Don't always believe what you think.


On this, back injuries or in fact just most injuries more often than not just don't happen over night.

 

[wingman]

No

On a ghr bench, did a hip extension with a barbell in hands with extended elbows, then at top of movement row it to chest.

Strength villain website has an article on bringing up the back. This was one of the exercises mentioned. You mentioning that hybrid thing you thought up made me think of it.

 

[Hanna_Bolic]

I'm no Oni but I think it's Creatine Phosphate.

Also, to add into the Assistance Programming debate. My 2c is that the more you rely on assistance in your programming the less margin for error you have in your programming compared to if your program is focused on frequency/volume of the lifts you're trying to improve

Thanks Hamburgler. I thought it was too, just checking.

You seem pretty smart Mr Goosey!

 

[bams_101]

OK first the ATP. You're correct that CP will take over after just a few seconds but after you rest the glycogen stores (which are bigger from eating more) will restore ATP. It's not making you STRONGER as such but increasing your work capacity a whole bunch. Hope this answers that. If not I can find some other sources but here is a start:
LIFT-RUN-BANG: Developing your raw bench - Part 1

I agree with you on the sticking point issue. Although I wouldn't call it "muscular weakness", I think this encourages "weak point training". Really it's just developing the muscular base that is needed for developing the lift. Targetting the weak part of the ROM did not work for me AT ALL, until I started thinking that the first part of the lift was the "weak point" and started pausing my benches, pausing my squats and doing my deadlifts from a mechanical disadvantage. I think anything that increases the ROM of the lift (close grip benching, deficit deadlifts, deep squats etc) will benefit the raw lift. Partials however I do not. Unless it's from a mechanical disadvantage and you're actually lifting LESS (example deadlifts from mid shin). Just how I feel

ATP is not glycogen, so ATP storage capacity and glycogen capacity are two different things. The latter actually being possible to increase via carb loading if that's what you mean by increasing work capacity? Sorry I just take work capacity to mean something a little different.

"Work capacity refers to the general ability of the body as a machine to produce work of different intensity and duration using the appropriate energy systems of the body" - Siff

Thats not a bad article man, and not a bad site. I'll add that to favourites haha. But there were a few things in there that are a bit off.

"Anyway, more ATP = more contractile power. So a larger area to distribute the load across + more contractile power = a bigger bench."

That's a new one for me and most of the strength world. ATP is basically the courier of the body dropping energy off where it needs to go. HAS NO CONTRACTILE ABILITY WHATSOEVER because it isn't ACTIN or MYOSIN, the contractile protein filaments found within the sarcomere. Btw not yelling here just emphasisng the words.

Totally agree on making shit harder than it has to be. Half of my ME work is based on this. But the assistance work, and a few others have voiced the same, should have some focus on weak points. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and while most will probably never actually change their weak link. They should do their best to address it in their training.

 

[bams_101]

The MedX or kieser low back and exercise lumbar pieces will do both of these. Now, I know many on this board have never tried either of these, but these are the real deal.

I found the MedX low back machine on Youtube, really impressive design!

Kieser training I remember for ACA a while back. Really smart and methodical on their treatments which I can appreciate. Would've loved that sort of approach when I tore my MCL (grade 2), yet the Docs at the hospital diagnosed as a sprain lol.

The only thing I work about is people getting the wrong idea about flexion based lower back movements. People who know what "a little" is like people on this forum are okay, but let laypeople hear that and disc are going to be flying out of peoples backs and bouncing around the gyms haha.

With the seated Good Mornings, try having your legs straight out in front of you to miminise any other muscle involvement =)

 

[Goosey]

I found the MedX low back machine on Youtube, really impressive design!

Kieser training I remember for ACA a while back. Really smart and methodical on their treatments which I can appreciate. Would've loved that sort of approach when I tore my MCL (grade 2), yet the Docs at the hospital diagnosed as a sprain lol.

The only thing I work about is people getting the wrong idea about flexion based lower back movements. People who know what "a little" is like people on this forum are okay, but let laypeople hear that and disc are going to be flying out of peoples backs and bouncing around the gyms haha.

With the seated Good Mornings, try having your legs straight out in front of you to miminise any other muscle involvement =)

The legs should be bent on this exercise and not straight or contracted.

 

[bams_101]

The legs should be bent on this exercise and not straight or contracted.

Oh ok, is it better for you that way? Why?

 

[0ni]

Because straight legs will stretch the hamstrings. You're not trying to build the hamstrings on this exercise, you're building the lower back through flexion and extension

 

[jzpowahz]

5)A movement I kind of "came up with" one day which really smoked my low back is the following: use a straight bar, feet shoulder width with a "soft" knee (maintain this knee position throughout), and peform a Romanian Deadlift (keep the head up, and shove the butt back and keep a neutral spine).

Keep the bar close to the body, and go down until the bar is at mid-shin (remember, keep the neutral spine).
Once you've reached mid shin with a neutral spine, round out the back slowly until the plates touch the floor.
Now, using only the lumbar muscles, extend back up, slowly and smoothly, into the neutral spine position.
Do not come all the way erect (like when you began the set).

Once you reach neutral spine, round out again and repeat the extension. 15-20 reps. You won't need much more than the bar to start this, and your low back will be screaming after 15 reps. It is kind of an RDL, SLD, Good Morning, and back extension all rolled into one. Try it.

Andy.

Will give that a go. Thanks Andy.

I know it uses a whole heap of other muscles as well but KB swings get my lower back crazy pumped.

 

[0ni]

"Truth is, I tell seminar attendees all the time that a training program rarely fails due to improper assistance exercise selection. It will fail from poor programming, a lack of consistency, and failing to accommodate the ups and downs of life. In other words, a program must allow you to adjust a bit when you have a particularly good or absolutely shitty day. It’s not as simple as “Do this.” You have to rely on that thing that rests between your ears." - Wendler

 

[bams_101]

Because straight legs will stretch the hamstrings. You're not trying to build the hamstrings on this exercise, you're building the lower back through flexion and extension

So I ask for an answer from Goosey yet you respond to this post yet ignore the others. Interesting.

"Truth is, I tell seminar attendees all the time that a training program rarely fails due to improper assistance exercise selection. It will fail from poor programming, a lack of consistency, and failing to accommodate the ups and downs of life. In other words, a program must allow you to adjust a bit when you have a particularly good or absolutely shitty day. It’s not as simple as “Do this.” You have to rely on that thing that rests between your ears." - Wendler

You totally can't trust what this guy says he was a multi-ply lifter with a 1000lb squat. None of his info will carry over into raw assistance work.