Advice from the diet enthusiasts.

[irishjoe]

Hi guys, ive read alot from this site and taken alot of its advice from its posters in regards to nutrition and general eating habits. Due to a change in work i need to satisfy certain physical requirements, main one being a body fat % test and many physical tests. The calculations i have done on myself so far have come back within the 25-30% range at 188cm, 106kg.

My main focus is losing body fat, second to that and more of an incidental gain is to increase LBM.

Was seeking advice on a general eating plan that i could base my week on, it's not 100% strictly to be followed, but was more written up to give me a numerical idea of what i was taking in. Any advice / criticism / observations from you guys would be appreciated. Whats missing in there is swapping some of the meat sources for fish/salmon and red meat.

Meal 1: (440 cal)
Going to start things with a 30 min walk
40g oats
1 scoop whey
1 cup skim milk


Meal 2: ( 325 cal)
200g natural yoghurt (added stevia)
1/2 apple
1x 95g tuna can

Meal 3: ( 440 cal)
Turkey (150g) sandwich on organic wheat bread
1/2 cup skim milk

Meal 4: (190 cal)
cut (approx 40g) sweet potato
2x 95g tuna can

Before Workout (360 cal)
40g oats
5x egg whites
1 cup skim milk

Post Workout ( 386 cal)
50g dextrose
1 & 1/2 scoop whey

Meal 5: (220 cal)
200g chicken breast + heaping serve of veggies OR salad

Meal 6: (51 cal)
3x egg whites

Cardio wise i am looking at 15 minutes HIIT everyday and using the compound workout routine.

Again any comments are appreciated.

 

[Fadi]

Hi there Joe,

I've scanned through your diet and added up the calories. You've got 2400 calories there which I don't mind at all but...

...where's the fat?! I doubt very much that this diet would supply you with even a low 10% fat! It would be wise to increase the fat to 30% since not much happen without it. You can not lose fat if your metabolism is slow and you can not speed it up if you don't work out. But how can you work out when you're sick?

Who said you're going to be sick? I said.

Why? Because a healthy body can not be had when it's not fed enough fat. So I see that you've included milk but opted for skim milk. I also see that you've included eggs, but opted for egg whites. Both of these foods are not as nature intended now and since you've decided to challenge what nature (I'd rather say God actually) Has intended, then your body would have to pay a price. That price is equal to a compromised immune system as well as a compromised endocrine system. Your skin, hair, nails, bones, sex drive, and the list goes on if you do not up your fat percentage. Now if you think that my recommendation of 30% is high, I’d like you to think again. You see Joe, I’d much rather you lose your fat mass whilst at the same time holding to as much muscle mass as possible, that Sir is achieved through the way you train more than the way you eat or not eat (to an extent). So in simple English (or Irish if you prefer), I’d like to see calorie expenditure through training instead of placing too much emphasis on dieting. After all, if you cut down too much on calorie, you cut down on your energy levels, which in turn would make your whole workout suffer and hence become another compromised factor in a chain of compromised factors.

Please do take the time to look around the forum properly, there are plenty of what you're looking for...just take the time if this means a lot to you.

Of course I could go on and on, but I simply chose one aspect of your diet to highlight before you…

Take care Sir.


Fadi.

 

[irishjoe]

Hi there Joe,

I've scanned through your diet and added up the calories. You've got 2400 calories there which I don't mind at all but...

...where's the fat?! I doubt very much that this diet would supply you with even a low 10% fat! It would be wise to increase the fat to 30% since not much happen without it. You can not lose fat if your metabolism is slow and you can not speed it up if you don't work out. But how can you work out when you're sick?

Who said you're going to be sick? I said.

Why? Because a healthy body can not be had when it's not fed enough fat. So I see that you've included milk but opted for skim milk. I also see that you've included eggs, but opted for egg whites. Both of these foods are not as nature intended now and since you've decided to challenge what nature (I'd rather say God actually) Has intended, then your body would have to pay a price. That price is equal to a compromised immune system as well as a compromised endocrine system. Your skin, hair, nails, bones, sex drive, and the list goes on if you do not up your fat percentage. Now if you think that my recommendation of 30% is high, I’d like you to think again. You see Joe, I’d much rather you lose your fat mass whilst at the same time holding to as much muscle mass as possible, that Sir is achieved through the way you train more than the way you eat or not eat (to an extent). So in simple English (or Irish if you prefer), I’d like to see calorie expenditure through training instead of placing too much emphasis on dieting. After all, if you cut down too much on calorie, you cut down on your energy levels, which in turn would make your whole workout suffer and hence become another compromised factor in a chain of compromised factors.

Please do take the time to look around the forum properly, there are plenty of what you're looking for...just take the time if this means a lot to you.

Of course I could go on and on, but I simply chose one aspect of your diet to highlight before you…

Take care Sir.


Fadi.

Hi fadi, thanx for taking the time to reply.

I hear what you are saying, i have overlooked fat % and that probably comes from a bad understanding of fat and its purpose in a diet, reading here and other resources will im sure leave me feeling a bit humbled.

The highlighted text is something that really appeals to me, ive been a victim of my own crime once before when i cut my weight down and that was letting the diet and number crunching dominate the process. I dont completely understand what you mean because im following a fairly narrow view at the moment (for fear of overcomplicating what comes so easy to others) of maintenance less 500 calories, allowing for my HIIT training expenditure.

 

[Fadi]

Hi fadi, thanx for taking the time to reply.

I hear what you are saying, i have overlooked fat % and that probably comes from a bad understanding of fat and its purpose in a diet, reading here and other resources will im sure leave me feeling a bit humbled.

The highlighted text is something that really appeals to me, ive been a victim of my own crime once before when i cut my weight down and that was letting the diet and number crunching dominate the process. I dont completely understand what you mean because im following a fairly narrow view at the moment (for fear of overcomplicating what comes so easy to others) of maintenance less 500 calories, allowing for my HIIT training expenditure.

Joe, what you're doing is great, really is. Many people don't even know what the word maintenance means when it comes to diet. You've probably gathered by now that I'm not crazy about dieting but would rather burn the fat mass through exercising. My past has proven to me that this is the way to go (when I was consuming 13500 calories and was 10% at the time). We'll leave that out for now and back to you.

Can you do both of us a favour and go over here please http://ausbb.com/nutrition-diet/11547-help-me-diet-yodas-2.html#post105249 where you'll see the reply I gave to Timmy. Please do check out reply #11 and follow the link I provided Timmy as well as scrolling down further to reply #15 where I talk about speeding one's metabolism.

Take your time Joe and I very much look forward to many many more exchanges with you until we can nail your training as well as eating.

Have you seen this? My one tip if you want to lose fat is…

Bye for now.


Fadi.

 

[irishjoe]

Fadi, thanx for both of those links, very good reads. Seems i have alot more to go, will check back a bit later with im sure many questions.

take care.

 

[derkaderka]

Hi guys, ive read alot from this site and taken alot of its advice from its posters in regards to nutrition and general eating habits. Due to a change in work i need to satisfy certain physical requirements, main one being a body fat % test and many physical tests. The calculations i have done on myself so far have come back within the 25-30% range at 188cm, 106kg.

My main focus is losing body fat, second to that and more of an incidental gain is to increase LBM.

Was seeking advice on a general eating plan that i could base my week on, it's not 100% strictly to be followed, but was more written up to give me a numerical idea of what i was taking in. Any advice / criticism / observations from you guys would be appreciated. Whats missing in there is swapping some of the meat sources for fish/salmon and red meat.

Meal 1: (440 cal)
Going to start things with a 30 min walk make it 40mins at 6.5-7km per hr pace
50g oats
1 scoop whey
1 cup skim milk


Meal 2: ( 325 cal)
200g natural yoghurt (added stevia)
1/2 apple
1x 95g tuna can

Meal 3: ( 440 cal)
Turkey (150g) sandwich on organic wheat bread
1/2 cup skim milk

Meal 4: (190 cal)
cut (approx 40g) sweet potato
2x 95g tuna can

Before Workout (360 cal)
40g oats
5x egg whites
1 cup skim milk

Post Workout ( 386 cal)
20g dextrose
1 & 1/2 scoop whey

Meal 5: (220 cal)
200g chicken breast + heaping serve of veggies OR salad
2 teaspoons of natural peanut butter

Meal 6: (51 cal)
6x egg whites

Cardio wise i am looking at 15 minutes HIIT everyday and using the compound workout routine. Do powerwalking after weights at 6.5-7km per hr for about 30mins NOT HIIT if your trying to get ripped i'd be speaking for almost all bodybuilders when saying they don't use HIIT at all and there physique certainty speaks results. All my comps i've only ever used powerwalking for cardio

Again any comments are appreciated.

changed it around for you just slightly

 

[Fadi]

Do powerwalking after weights at 6.5-7km per hr for about 30mins NOT HIIT if your trying to get ripped i'd be speaking for almost all bodybuilders when saying they don't use HIIT at all and there physique certainty speaks results. All my comps i've only ever used powerwalking for cardio

I would not do the above...not now.

Derka, Joe is not talking about getting ripped or even becoming a competitive bodybuilder. The man simple wants to lose some fat. I know exactly what bodybuilders do and unfortunately most follow in the footsteps of pro bodybuilders who are taking steroids. We can get into that if you like and how that does change the whole ball game.

The aim here is to speed the metabolism so one can use their fat storage more efficiently at rest. To do what you're suggesting above is to achieve the opposite results I'm advocating here. That is I do want to minimise as much muscle loss as possible whilst speeding up the metabolism. To perform a 30 minute of power walking after having already done the weights is to ask for trouble (again the steroid issue is relevant here).

45 minutes after one trains with weights, their level of testosterone declines sharply whilst their level of cortisol rises sharply. Hence, this is not the best time to be going for a power walk where the possibility of losing muscle mass is great. A loss of muscle mass goes to slow the metabolism down, something that is contradictory to what I'm trying to achieve here with Joe.

Your method has its merits without a doubt, but one has to get his timing right. By that I mean a bodybuilder with a great amount of muscle to fat ratio and not as Joe is at

25-30% range at 188cm, 106kg

,that bodybuilder's metabolism is already ticking over like a V8. As time goes by, Joe would only need to walk instead of performing HIIT, but not right now.

PS: Training has its stages.


Fadi.

 

[derkaderka]

Derka, Joe is not talking about getting ripped or even becoming a competitive bodybuilder. The man simple wants to lose some fat.

I sit year round with a 6 pack because of my bodybuilding nutrition methods. I'm assuming the gentleman wants to end up with a 6 pack and a body he can show off proudly at the beach.
I manage to do this year round and i know this is because of what i've learnt and applied during my competitive bodybuilding

 

[Fadi]

I sit year round with a 6 pack because of my bodybuilding nutrition methods. I'm assuming the gentleman wants to end up with a 6 pack and a body he can show off proudly at the beach.
I manage to do this year round and i know this is because of what i've learnt and applied during my competitive bodybuilding

You’re beginning to puzzle me Derka. Where did I say your method does not work? Where do I say I doubt what you're saying in the least? You seem to be very selective at what you read and totally oblivious to anything that des not fit with your method/s. I can assure you, if you maintain such an attitude you'll never learn anything new and that would be your loss and no one else's.

Mate I had a 6 pack with a low 10% fat level but...I was having 13500 calories at the time. Now how many bodybuilders do you know of (pro or amatures) who eat so much and are ripped wit striations in the quads and triceps like I had. Now what does that prove? Does that prove that to be at a low 10% fat you have to eat over 13000 calories a day? Can you see where I'm heading Derka?


Fadi.

 

[derkaderka]

You’re beginning to puzzle me Derka. Where did I say your method does not work? Where do I say I doubt what you're saying in the least? You seem to be very selective at what you read and totally oblivious to anything that des not fit with your method/s. I can assure you, if you maintain such an attitude you'll never learn anything new and that would be your loss and no one else's.

Mate I had a 6 pack with a low 10% fat level but...I was having 13500 calories at the time. Now how many bodybuilders do you know of (pro or amatures) who eat so much and are ripped wit striations in the quads and triceps like I had. Now what does that prove? Does that prove that to be at a low 10% fat you have to eat over 13000 calories a day? Can you see where I'm heading Derka?


Fadi.

I've seen what i apply work over and over for people so that's my stance behind why i advocate it.

 

[Fadi]

I've seen what i apply work over and over for people so that's my stance behind why i advocate it.

Same here, but I also apply what you apply and what he, she, and they apply.


Fadi.

 

[derkaderka]

Same here, but I also apply what you apply and what he, she, and they apply.


Fadi.

cool cool

 

[irishjoe]

A spirited discussion, thats always good.

DerkaDerka, Is it your opinion that 50g dextrose is too much for me to be taking in post workout? im generally spending 1.5 hours in the gym on average.

50g is the number that i compensated for when fitting in the 2400 calories per day and going of the label (not always correct i know). Can you give a short explanation why i sohuld drop it down to 20g?

 

[Fadi]

A spirited discussion, thats always good.

DerkaDerka, Is it your opinion that 50g dextrose is too much for me to be taking in post workout? im generally spending 1.5 hours in the gym on average.

50g is the number that i compensated for when fitting in the 2400 calories per day and going of the label (not always correct i know). Can you give a short explanation why i sohuld drop it down to 20g?

Joe, I'm sure Derka will give you an explanation. However, I've always advocated a post workout drink of between 40-50 of a high GI carbohydrate post workout as you can see here: "Diet" #1: A 2200 CALORIE FOOD PLAN . The only thing I would change in your case is I would bring the WP down to about 15g and no more. I'd want to keep the ratio between carb and protein at this time at 4:1.

Why? Well one of the reasons is blood sugar stabilisation that one gets from the WP. As you know, at this time we're after a spike of insulin with nothing that would put a damper on it. Although insulin has a double edged sword, at post workout your cells are very much insulin sensitive and which means it would be damn hard for you to add fat at this time.

By the way, I belong to the insulin spiking pre/post/during workout time camp (as if you can't tell hey)!

All the best.

PS: The only time I would bring your high GI carbs down from 50gm PWO is if you were a small man; and you’re not a small man by a long shot Joe.



Fadi.

 

[irishjoe]

Joe, I'm sure Derka will give you an explanation. However, I've always advocated a post workout drink of between 40-50 of a high GI carbohydrate post workout as you can see here . The only thing I would change in your case is I would bring the WP down to about 15g and no more. I'd want to keep the ratio between carb and protein at this time at 4:1.

Why? Well one of the reasons is blood sugar stabilisation that one gets from the WP. As you know, at this time we're after a spike of insulin with nothing that would put a damper on it. Although insulin has a double edged sword, at post workout your cells are very much insulin sensitive and which means it would be damn hard for you to add fat at this time.

By the way, I belong to the insulin spiking pre/post/during workout time camp (as if you can't tell hey)!

All the best.

PS: The only time I would bring your high GI carbs down from 50gm PWO is if you were a small man; and you’re not a small man by a long shot Joe.



Fadi.

Hi fadi,
Your meal plans and from what i gathered from other sources are the reason i went with the 50g post workout, seemed like it was a popoular choice across the board. The WP amount i did struggle with, ill try what you said and drop it back to get the 4:1 ratio.

(explanations are always appreciated instead of just answers, way to go fadi)

 

[derkaderka]

A spirited discussion, thats always good.

DerkaDerka, Is it your opinion that 50g dextrose is too much for me to be taking in post workout? im generally spending 1.5 hours in the gym on average.

50g is the number that i compensated for when fitting in the 2400 calories per day and going of the label (not always correct i know). Can you give a short explanation why i sohuld drop it down to 20g?

Based on personal experience i've found if i don't drop the sugars down when coming into a comp i can't shift enough bodyfat off.

You do need some insulin as stated post workout i just personally think from what i've done and seen 50g would be a bit too much PW mbey go donw to 35g if your hesitate in dropping it too low. My personal opinion for leaning down 50g PW when leaning down is too high

 

[Fadi]

Based on personal experience i've found if i don't drop the sugars down when coming into a comp i can't shift enough bodyfat off.

You do need some insulin as stated post workout i just personally think from what i've done and seen 50g would be a bit too much PW mbey go donw to 35g if your hesitate in dropping it too low. My personal opinion for leaning down 50g PW when leaning down is too high

I agree with Damien here Joe. Although you're going to get basically the same insulin spike be it at 35 or 50, what Damien is saying would be on the mark as more and more fat needs to be shed (as a comp nears) for example.

I gave the figure of 50 because I'm crazy about maintaining energy for a kick ass workout. So if you can blast the weight with ample energy doing a lower carb, then please do go Damien's way (or just simply the logical way).

Show me a flexible bodybuilder and I'd show you a sussccful one. Show me a rigid bodybuilder and I'd show you one who knows not the meaning of the word progression.

Thank God we're all flexible around here !


Fadi.

 

[irishjoe]

Based on personal experience i've found if i don't drop the sugars down when coming into a comp i can't shift enough bodyfat off.

You do need some insulin as stated post workout i just personally think from what i've done and seen 50g would be a bit too much PW mbey go donw to 35g if your hesitate in dropping it too low. My personal opinion for leaning down 50g PW when leaning down is too high

Changed my consistency tonight to 30g PW. I'll defer to the experts, thanx for the advice mate.