About becoming a personal trainer

If I had a gym I would only be employing people who fit in with my philosophy. They can use different coaching styles, run different programs etc etc etc but if the core principles are not met then they would not work for me. It works differently in a commercial place like the Y, it is one reason to work in smaller studios (as long as it is run by a capable person)

PTC said:

And these last few posts clearly show why PT's have such a bad rep amongst more knowledgeable lifters.

Your main consideration was not upsetting the other PT, not the client.

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No, my main consideration was not upsetting the manager by my undermining another PT.

We should never put the client second, or third, they have to come first.

Surely we can ALL agree on this.

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I absolutely agree. But if I upset the manager and am fired from the place, then I cannot do anything for the clients there. If I do that at every place I work at, then I cannot do anything for any clients at all.

If I undermine another PT in front of a client, the client doesn't simply lose faith in the other PT, they lose faith in me, too. They end up thinking we're all dickheads. So they don't listen to either of us.

So I compromise on one client so as to be able to work constructively with many others, and work constructively with that one client in the future.

Remember that I'm not sitting at a desk like many trainers. I'm active on the gym floor, getting people to add squats and deadlifts to their workouts, or correcting the technique of those who do, or giving free PT to people who express an interest in strength training.

"What are your goals? Your injuries? .... Okay, in that case, what might be good for you is barbell squats. Would you like me to show you?"

I can't do that if I'm fired. If a person wants to be employed by others, they have to make some compromises. Applies in any job.

If that client I spoke to keeps coming back, I'll soon be offering her new exercises, and she'll have the opportunity to change her routine. Compromise and patience. This is what a person needs if they want to be employed by others, and do something useful.

Today came in a young woman who I'd given a routine to a few weeks before. A soccer player, so she needs some leg strength. She also wants to lose some fat. She keeps coming in and just doing cardio. Today I saw her, "Strength training today?"
"No, I don't have much time."
"How much do you have?"
"About an hour."
"That's plenty. You can do half an hour of strength, half an hour of cardio."

We had a bit of a chat. I said, "Fair enough to do the cardio. Being fitter is good. But you can get the same effect in a shorter time." We played around with the levels on the treadmill, I explained about heart rates and all that.

"Now if you don't enjoy the weight training, that's fair enough. But it's actually going to help you towards your goals. You might not enjoy the training, but I think you'd enjoy reaching your goals. Only around 20% of people who come to the gym ever achieve their goals. Most just give up, but those who stick with it, most aren't doing the training they need to achieve them. So if you don't want to do strength training, fair enough. But your goals of playing soccer better, reducing chances of injury, and losing fat - well, strength training will help that. It's up to you, mate, it's your body and your time. I just lay out the route from where you are to where you want to get to, it's up to you to walk it."

Later I saw her deadlifting. Afterwards she came to me and thanked me, saying she actually felt really good after deadlifting, it was much easier than last time, etc.

So when a client's training is at all under my control, that's the sort of thing they get - training appropriate to their goals. Up to them whether they do it, of course.

Last night a client came to me, the first thing he told me was "I'm tired, I had a long day, I even thought about ringing you up and piking tonight." Next he told me his shoulder was hurting, and had been for a few days - possible injury? "See the physio."

He knocked out some front squats, he was slow and breathing heavily compared to normal. I could see he physically wasn't up to his usual performance. Then he said, "By the way, don't ask me to do 20 rep squats like you did last week."
"Think you're not up to it?"
"I won't do it. If you ask me to, I won't do it."
"Mate, there's no sense in paying someone to train you if you won't do as they say. If you can't do it, that's fair enough. But won't? There is no won't. There's just stay and do it, or go home and watch tv instead."

I was a bit taken aback, he's never come at me with attitude like that before. He did another set, obviously miserable about the whole thing. I stopped him, and took the plates off the bar.

"Go home, mate. Your body, mind and spirit are not up for it tonight. If it's just your body, we adjust the workout. If it's just your mind, I distract you. If it's just your spirit, I encourage you. Two out of three we can work with. But none of the three is into it tonight. So go home, watch tv, play computer games, whatever, just relax. You've overdue for that holiday you're taking in a couple of weeks."

He was apologetic, sort of, and went home.

When it's someone else's client, I have to compromise. When it's my client in a gym, I can push them a bit. When it's my own client in my own garage, I can be uncompromising.

I get to experience all three. One of them is no fcking fun at all. But that's life.

Kyle, you write very goodly mate. You've definitely got a flair for constructing interesting reports about people's attitudes and approach to fitness. I've been trying to think of ways you could use your writing skills to further yourself while still continuing your passion for personal training.

One thing that came to mind was doing letter box drops once you're in a position to open your own gym. I reckon you would be able to draft some pamphlets that, if carefully constructed, with a series of short articles aimed at different target groups, could really hit home with plenty of couch potatoes.

Using the internet, and continuing your own journal as you're doing now could also help a great deal, and would probably be more efficient, but my point is that I reckon you've got the tools in the future to really touch a nerve with some of these people and drum up some good business for yourself.

Thanks DKD. People just bin pamphlets, but the internet is a useful medium in many ways. It helps us keep in touch, if nothing else - someone else at one of the gyms just now confirmed she'd sign on with me for a couple of sessions a week, and used email to do so.

I use words when talking about working with someone, and during sessions. "Too much explanation," they said to me at one place. Thing is, it works.

Blogs and things I'm not so sure of. I originally wrote all this stuff because when I started looking into becoming a PT, there was really no information out there. Which courses were good? What sort of people go into it? What sort of people stay in it? What sort of stuff do you really do, day-to-day? What's the pay like? Etc.

Kyle, not undermining another PT, very noble, even though you acknowledge his program was selling the client short.

Lucky your not a cop protecting another officer. Politician protecting a fellow member etc

Wrong is wrong, you cant be a little pregnant.

I agree with you that in your position, you have little choice. I have said before I could never do your job.

I was just underlining WHY PT's have such a bad rep. Do you think your actions helped?

The common fitness industry business model is terrible for the clients health, performance etc but brilliant for the business making money. They just regurgitate PTs and drain money from clients who do not even use their facilities frequently. It is a very well planned model and works fantastic, it is probably why big companies like Macquarie Bank are getting in on the action. Sadly the unhealthy population loses out to them much like we lose out in healthy foods to big business who put profit before food quality.

My plan is to work for myself, I will be able to both treat musculoskeletal injuries/postural issues that are common in society and work on health, fitness and just looking good at the same time. I may web throw in some cardiac rehab as well. For now though I have to play the game (once I have employment outside of the rehab hospital) like Kyle but all I can do is do my best.

It is very sad but what can you do but just hope and plan for the future.
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I have much the same plan dave, to open my own facility and work for me.

Fair way off, but gotta have that dream

Who are your intended clients? I am looking at a mix of mainly everyday people and maybe some athletes and a few direct rehab clients here and there. As I can use my rehab experience and education with basic PTing I can market myself as both corrective exercise and health and fitness (and actually know what I am doing unlike some PT's corrective exercise plans). Since I will be and accredited exercise physiologist I get the Allied health marketing as well. These are the things to look at with your plan. As Markos as plainly stated before training athletes is great but everyday people bring in the dollars (his was a little more blunt and a lot more crude ). Good luck anyways and just try to get as much quality intern/placement work as you can while you can.
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It would be open to everyone. My personal interest lies with s&c work, and I'd like to work with athletes but not at to the total exclusion of other driven individuals.

I'm going to look into getting some rehab experience but it isn't something I can see myself being interested in with any depth. Corrective exercise would be about the scope I would take with it. I'll be working on my s&c certification over the next few years after I graduate, and I'd like to visit gyms and coaches I respect.

I just want to provide a place with knowledgeable trainers, an easily accessible price point and an atmosphere that promotes training and reaching goals as opposed to walking for an hour while watching a dvd screen. Obviously there are more details (getting involved with the local community etc), but that is the gist.

While I'm sure these places exist, PTC being one of them, there are not enough of them and I don't think (enough) people are aware of the difference it can make.

moons said:

While I'm sure these places exist, PTC being one of them, there are not enough of them and I don't think (enough) people are aware of the difference it can make.

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This is the challenge you guys face. It's good to have that desire and passion to open up one of these places as you, Dave and Kyle obviously have. But as long as places like Fitness First have the brand awareness that they currently enjoy, then a large portion of out-of-shape folk will be headed their way.

I reckon with the fitness business there tends to be fads or crazes that become popular for a while and people jump on to it. Aerobics in the 80s, HIIT these days. There needs to be a paradigm shift in the general population's thinking so that weight-training, compound lifts etc start to get a more favourable rep with the average Joe rather than just the dedicated fitness enthusiast. Don't ask me how that's gonna happen, but if it does, you guys could be really enjoying good times with your businesses.

PTC said:

Kyle, not undermining another PT, very noble, even though you acknowledge his program was selling the client short.

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It's not nobility, it's simple practical self-interest.

I don't want other trainers changing the routines I give out, so I won't change theirs. If I take out their swiss balls, what do I do when they take out my barbells? How would I stop them, do I have to stay at the gym from 0600-2200 every day just in case someone alters one of my routines?

PTC said:

Lucky your not a cop protecting another officer. Politician protecting a fellow member etc

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I think a comparison to police and official corruption is getting a bit carried away. Corruption does harm. The workouts given will do no injury to the person. They just won't do them as much good as a better workout would do.

The thing is that when someone comes to a gym, they don't see Kyle the trainer or Bob the trainer or whoever. They just see PTs. So if I say another trainer is clueless, the person thinks less of the other trainer, and less of me, too. They think we're all idiots.

And if the person thinks we're all idiots, they won't follow the routines any of us give them. So by undermining another trainer, I would be undermining myself, and undermining the trainee, too.

PTC said:

Wrong is wrong

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The thing is that sometimes anything you do will be wrong. All you can do is choose the least harmful way. I've rewritten parts of routines which I thought might cause harm to a trainee - dips for someone with recent shoulder surgery, that sort of thing. If it'll cause no harm, I leave it in - even if it won't do as much good as a better routine would do.

The person could do a less than effective routine, over time learn to trust me and get a better routine; or I could undermine another trainer, the person won't trust me, and won't do any routine. I consider both of those to be wrong, but one is less wrong than the other.

The simple fact is that most gym-goers don't follow a routine and progress it anyway. I already gave the example of the young woman who had "only an hour" and so wanted to cut out the strength training. Now, I watched out for her, greeted her, asked her how things were going, and so on - most trainers don't, they just leave them to it. Had I not been so nosey, she would have spent another couple of years stuck to the treadmill. She might, still, who knows. It'll take constant reinforcement from me, I think.

That's not to say I'm some legendary trainer, of course. It's simply to say that whether the routine is crap or awesome doesn't usually matter, because most people going to gyms won't follow it, and if they do follow it, won't progress it. The routine could have swiss balls or barbells, treadmills or tightropes, it doesn't matter: the boys are going to do bench press and biceps, the girls are going to ride their bikes at level 2 resistance and 45rpm while they read a magazine.

So I don't get too torn up about some far from ideal routine the trainee isn't going to follow anyway. I'll just continue strolling around the gym teaching people to squat and deadlift. Did that with another three people today, and scored a new PT client.

PTC said:

I was just underlining WHY PT's have such a bad rep. Do you think your actions helped?

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PTs have a bad rep because people who know very little about performing or coaching exercise, about helping others achieve physical training goals, and have themselves never hired anyone to train them - those people like to mouth off.

Whether my actions overall improve or worsen the public image of PTs will be judged by others, not me, and should be judged over time. Remember, I don't have to tell you guys this stuff. I could easily paint a very flattering picture of myself. It's my opinion that honesty helps image, even if the things you're telling are not always flattering to yourself.

finding a PT job

Since coming back from my honeymoon at the end of April, I have

• applied for 12 positions
• been invited for 6 interviews
• been offered 4 jobs
• accepted 2 of those jobs

Of the 12 positions, 4 were just open ongoing advertisements for casual GI/PTs put up by councils and gyms. These did not reply to me at all; I think they just keep the advert up forever then whenever they really do need someone, they start responding.

The following is what I just wrote to Danco, but I thought might be of general interest.

One job I was unadvertised, I was talking to my RMIT teacher, he asked me if I had a job yet, I said no, he asked where I lived, he told me to call PA at the gym; PA is a colleague and friend of his from some years back. I rang up PA, chatted to him, he told me to email the gym supervisor and mention I'd talked to him. So when I went for that, I was competing against no-one but myself.

Others have been advertised at Fitness Australia, or else on the websites of chain gyms like the YMCA.

Typically those jobs get 30-100 resumes sent in, so your cover letter is important. I found it useful to give a potted life story, in this I said I was a new and inexperienced PT who wanted to work with more experienced people and learn. So the implicit message was, "I don't have PT experience, but do have life experience."

Of the 30-100 resumes received, they ring up 10-15 people to see who they want to interview in person, which is usually around 6 people.

Some will make their decision from there, but some will take 3-4 of the people interviewed and do a practical interview with them. They then make their decision. Typically from first contact to being offered the job takes 3-6 weeks.

The verbal interviews come in four parts,

• They ask you to run over your background again, even if it's just a repetition of the resume/cover letter. Part of this is to set up the interview generally, but it's also to see if you're lying about your background and experience, you're more likely to stumble verbally than in writing.
• HResque questions with no "right" answer. Apart from the "what is your major weakness" stuff, it's some questions about how you resolve conflict situations, like "suppose someone was on the treadmill for an hour and others were waiting to use it, and refused to get off." Wrong answers include "I'd leave him to it," and "I'd smash him!."
• technical questions to show you know your stuff; some places omit these questions, or just go by feel in the rest, expecting to leave it to the practical interview. "What are the four muscles of the rotator cuff?" and that sort of thing.
• communication/thinking questions to see how good your comprehension and expression abilities are, how clear-thinking, eg "do you have a philosophy of training, and if so what is it?" Among these is "how would you grow the PT business here?"

Essentially most places are looking for someone who is friendly, outgoing, positive, and knows their sht. Knowledge of their sht is actually the least important part; you can teach knowledge, you can't teach a good attitude.

The practical interview will generally have the manager watching while some staff member roleplays being a client, and will consist of three parts,

• health consult with roleplayed person X
• programme showthrough with X
• PT session with a different roleplayed person Y

so this is where your technical knowledge, general demeanour, coaching ability and so on will be demonstrated. The "client" will usually demonstrate bad form, or apprehension about "bulking up", and present with some injury or health condition, etc. Ordinary competent coaching cues like putting your fingers under their toes while they do a bodyweight squat or leg press to ensure they put their weight through their heels tend to go down very well, and a friendly rapport with the "client"

References will only really be called to help decide between candidates they feel are evenly-matched, and/or to confirm opinions the interviewers already have.

During interviews it can be good to drop some names of people you've met in class and been lectured by, or trained with over the years, etc. You never know who'll turn up as knowing each-other - the managers at my two gyms actually went to Cert III together at Holmesglen and had the same teacher JS, the character who quit two weeks into our course.

Having someone in common you know, even if that person's not recommending you or something, it creates a bit of a bond and kind of reassures the interviewer that you're human and not just someone who sprang up from their resume, if you know what I mean. It also gives you something non-job-related to talk about during the interview. If they're talking non-job things with you, that's usually a very good sign.

The initial job offer will usually be for a casual gym instructor position of 1-3 shifts of 4hr each. The first 3 months are probationary, you can be dismissed at any time with no reason given. Some will want you to stick to just GI work for that period, and only PT afterwards; others will want you to start PTing right away. The GI work is paid at a certain rate, the PT work at a higher rate. Gyms differ in whether they allow you to PT during your gym shifts.

If you want to build the PT side of it, you will have to make available times outside your gym shifts to train people, you may have to come in unpaid just to hang around and get to know people.

Kyle could you go in to a bit of detail about the health consult / pre screening process that your gyms employ (or does the PT themselves choose how to go about it)?

The gyms choose the basic template for the health consult. It's a liability issue, and since they're the ones paying the insurance premiums and the ones who'll get sued if anything turns bad... The health consults have a series of questions: current & previous physical activity, likes & dislikes, health conditions & injuries, and goals.

Current activity matters because it gives us the baseline of their fitness, strength, etc. Previous activity shows that they have in the past had motivation and resolve, and will have a degree of bodily awareness.

Health conditions is things like diabetes and asthma, which will affect physical training in obvious ways. As well there are major issues like previous heart attack, though usually only in older clients. Previous injuries will also affect training, there may be areas you have to avoid or focus on, depending on the injury, any rehab the person is doing, etc. Sensible trainers will go into detail here. "How severe is the asthma? Do you have a preventer or reliever with you? Since that ankle break six years ago, has there been during any particular movements?" etc. As well as protecting the health and safety of the client, this also establishes trust from the client, important when you're trying to get them to follow the routine you're giving them.

Likes & dislikes are the kind of training they hate or enjoy. It's useless to give them a routine they won't do, though compromises can be made, you can put the hated but necessary exercise first, then fill in the rest with what they'll enjoy.

Goals is an obvious one.

Most places will take blood pressure for anyone over 18.

Not written down on the health consult forms but part of the discussion with the person is getting a feel for their motivation level, their knowledge of physical training, and so on. Some people just need to be told, "go here, do this." Others want to know why.

Aside from that, any trainer can of course ask whatever they like. I will usually do a postural assessment, and get the person to do some bodyweight squats and pressups. This gives me an idea where they're starting at, if there are any big muscle imbalances, and so on. For example, stupid to give back squats to someone with strongly increased kyphosis.

Typically the programme showthrough will be in a second session after that. Most gyms will allow an hour for health consult, and a separate hour for the showthrough, so you get a chance to think about their routine and/or ask other trainers. In most cases I do them both in the first hour, but still book a showthrough for a week later, to really hammer home the technique, and also to keep that human contact going which encourages the person to keep coming to the gym.

Enough detail?

Yeah that's great, thanks. My main curiousity was if it was all questionnaire based, as we've been taught ecg/vo2/submax/max testing. I couldn't see joe public going through all those things (I wouldn't), but figured it was for a more rehabilitation setting anyways.

Does the questionnaire group clients by risk stratification for cardiovascular disease? If so, have you had to handle or seen a situation where someone was advised to see a GP before doing anything?

Some gyms use their own (stolen and rebranded) submax test but it depends on the gym, PT etc. No one will do ECG in fact you will not find an ECG done for a lot of cardiac rehab clients besides the initial test. Most things are set from the intial test and worked from there. I doubt you would find 1 in 3000 PT's who could actually conduct a proper ECG and max or submax test. Also as Kyle has stated V02max is useless except for research purposes.

I will be doing a max test on myself with ECG on Friday in the lab with a couple of others. I had to teach one of them proper placement last week and I believe I don't have the full hang of it yet either.
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moons said:

Yeah that's great, thanks. My main curiousity was if it was all questionnaire based, as we've been taught ecg/vo2/submax/max testing.

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Most gyms don't bother with VO2 max etc. Remember that most people just want to "get fit, lose weight, tone up," so that stuff, which is important for elite sports performance, just doesn't matter for them. They'll say things like, "I want to go up a flight of stairs without puffing." What VO2max does that correspond to?

Does the questionnaire group clients by risk stratification for cardiovascular disease? If so, have you had to handle or seen a situation where someone was advised to see a GP before doing anything?

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There's no stratification as such. We're not medicos, remember. So we just ask if the person has had a heart attack, stroke, etc. The only thing we definitely measure is blood pressure. Someone who comes in with over 145/90 gets referred to a doctor.

I've referred several people before doing anything, yes. In general, sedentary males over 45, females over 55, anyone who's had heart disease, who is currently a smoker and obese (not merely overweight), etc. Basically anyone who if pushed hard has some chance of dropping dead in a workout. Looks bad on the resume.

I tend to refer people to physios a fair bit, too. I mean, someone used to be sedentary, has a desk job, they have back pain, well chances are it's just that their abs and glutes are weak, get them stronger, back pain will disappear. But someone with a recent knee reconstruction, someone with possible spondy, chronic pain in a joint, or pain which consistently hinders a particular movement, etc, I'll refer them. Worst thing happens, physio says it's nothing. But usually it's something.

However, referring them to physios is individual discrection. The gym just cares about things which might cause the person to drop dead or fall unconscious etc during a workout. I mean obviously if they tell you about a knee reco or whatever you're supposed to take that into account in the programme design, but it wouldn't cause you to not train them until they've gone to the doc.

Great info thanks Kyle

It's good to see this thread still going strong. Great for those of us who are still going through the processes.

So far i've had two interviews. One was just questionnaire based, i wasn't prepared enough, and they ended up going with someone who had a few years of experience anyway, which is hard to compete with. Either way, it was experience for me as the interview was quite different from those i have had in the IT industry.

The second one was quite different. He quickly ran through my resume, then he showed me around the gym, i showed interest and asked questions etc. This interview there were no HR type questions or any other questions at all really.
I just saw it as him trying to get to know me and suss me out, but to be honest im not really sure what he may have got out of it. I was well presented, and in general am easy to get along with, tried to put across some of the knowledge i have, and was friendly to clients as he showed me round the gym. Haven't heard back from him and will contact him shortly to see, but am doubtful as its been over a week.

If anyone else has had other interview experiences, would be great to share.

Keep up the good stuff, Kyle.

What sort of places were you going to, Dan?

My experience in restaurants was that the big company-owned places have a formal process like I've described above, the small places with an owner-manager it was less formal, just a chat like you've described. So I'm guessing the places you've gone to were small ones, not part of a chain or council-owned?