AAS/PED Misconceptions

[zygote404]

your strudies dont mean shit as there are 100's that say the complete opposite. you see what you want to see. you haven posted studies that contradict the other studies you posted. talk about someone in denial

I haven't found any studies that contradict. How likely would it be that multiple separate studies all finding similar results would be contradicted by similar studies finding opposing results. Be like two calculators giving different results to the same equation. The studies could be wrong sure but the likelihood is they're not.
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@ El Testicle - Yes we can

 

[Johnnie Walker]

love how you edited your posts to hide the study you posted in regards to mice being more aggresive, you even commented on the contradiction. yet now you have never seen any contradicting studies? lol

 

[Bazza20]

Your position is anti-steroid because you're insisting steroids have negative effects even though that insistence is at odds with the evidence.

I see steroids as a medicine, I inject them for several reasons, because I enjoy not having my test drop off year by year and I like the way it helps me put on muscle. Just like any medicine I believe the findings, advice and comments regarding that medicine made by those with Professor, Dr. and a bunch of post-nominal letters after their names over an opinion on a forum, even more so when they use recognized scientific techniques and methods to study the actual effects.

The idea that "I used x steroid and I got angry more than I usually do therefore "roid-rage" (even though I don't know the actual meaning of the term) is real" or "I used Tren and my liver values went up so Tren causes liver damage" is more reliable than a carefully controlled study is ludicrous. You want your opinion to be true therefore you fit your dubious experiences to match vs you test in a carefully controlled environment on multiple subjects and controls and see what the results actually show.

All drugs ( "medicine" or not) have side effects.

Find a "medicine" with zero side effects and you have a medicine that does nothing.

 

[zygote404]

love how you edited your posts to hide the study you posted in regards to mice being more aggresive, you even commented on the contradiction. yet now you have never seen any contradicting studies? lol

I don't recall editing the posts to remove that. In fact I'm pretty sure all the studies I posted all say there was increased aggression to testosterone propionate, not just in mice but also in humans but the important part was even though aggression increased, the social cues and behaviours were not affected meaning the mouse would respond more aggressively to aggression but it wouldn't suddenly black out and find itself standing of the bodies of its wife and kids claiming "roid rage".

In humans we have a much more complex social system, in conflict management increased aggression is probably positive, when that aggression is not physical its called being assertive. In those rare instances that we are attacked by someone physically being more aggressive in response is probably also a positive thing for self defence.

All drugs ( "medicine" or not) have side effects.

Find a "medicine" with zero side effects and you have a medicine that does nothing.

Where did I say they don't have side effects?

Edit: Oh nevermind, where I said "you're insisting steroids have negative side effects". That was in response to the side effects (rage, liver damage) we were talking about not negative sides in general.

 

[Johnnie Walker]

""Psychiatric complications

Anabolic steroids have been associated with a range of psychiatric symptoms, although the limited research literature in this area does not yet prove a causal link.Aggression and violence

Empirical studies in both animals and humans have shownan increase in aggression in both males and females exposed to anabolic steroids (Eisenberg & Galloway, 2005), and self-reported aggression may be the only sign of steroid misuse (Copeland et al, 2000). Moderately high doses of testosterone cypionate have been shown to increase aggressive responding in individuals who have not used steroids before (Kouri et al, 1995), and increasing doses of methyltestosterone have been correlated with increasing irritability, mood swings, violent feelings and hostility (Su et al, 1993). Misusers of anabolic steroids subjectively report significantly more fights, verbal aggression and violence towards their significant others during periods of use compared with periods of non-use (Choi & Pope, 1994). There have been several case reports of what users call ‘roid rage’, frenzied violent behaviour during the high-dose cycles of steroid use (Lukas, 2003). In 88 athletes who were using anabolic steroids Pope & Katz (1994) found that aggressive or violent behaviour often accompanied steroid-associated manic or hypomanic episodes. Participants admitted to a range of serious episodes, including property damage, assault, being involved in a murder plot and beating a pet dog. Several of the sample had been expelled from home by parents, wives or girlfriends because of their intolerably aggressive behaviour. Nearly all denied comparable behaviour before steroid use. Other work has suggested that adolescents who abuse anabolic steroids have nearly triple the incidence of violent behaviour (Dukarmet al, 1996).
Psychosis

In earlier research, Pope & Katz (1988) studied 41 individuals who used anabolic steroids. Of these, 5 (12.2%) had psychotic symptoms and 4 (10%) had sub-threshold psychotic symptoms while taking steroids: none had these symptoms when not taking them. A subsequent larger study (Pope & Katz, 1994) found similar results, with psychotic symptoms diagnosed in 3% of the 88 users ‘on-cycle’, but in none ‘off-cycle’. The risk of developing psychotic symptoms may be related to high-dose testosterone (Pope & Katz, 1994; Hallet al, 2005).Clinical presentations include grandiose and paranoid delusional states that often occur in the context of a psychotic or manic episode. Symptoms usually resolve in a few weeks if steroid use is discontinued, although may persist for as long as a month even if adequately treated with antipsychotics (Hall et al, 2005).
Personality disorders

Self-report questionnaires and informant histories have been used to retrospectively assess the personality type of anabolic steroid misusers before their first use. Such work suggests that they start out with personalities similar to those of non-using bodybuilders, but develop abnormal personality traits that could be attributed to steroid misuse (Eisenberg & Galloway, 2005).Cooper et al(1996) identified a high rate of abnormal personality traits in a sample of 12 bodybuilders who had used anabolic steroids compared with a matched group who had not. The reported personality traits of the steroid users before the onset of use did not differ from those of the non-users, but in the user group there were significant differences between the before and after traits. During steroid use, individuals were more likely to score higher on paranoia, schizoid, antisocial, borderline, histrionic, narcissistic and passive aggressive personality profiles. Other studies have suggested that antisocial personality disorder is slightly more likely among anabolic steroid users than among non-users (Pope & Katz, 1994). Steroid users have been shown to have a higher prevalence of cluster B (histrionic, narcissistic, antisocial and borderline) personality traits than community controls (Yates et al, 1990).
Mood and anxiety disorders

Affective disorders have long been recognised as a complication of anabolic steroid use. Case reports describe both hypomania and mania, along with irritability, elation, recklessness, racing thoughts and feelings of power and invincibility that did not meet the criteria for mania/hypomania (Eisenberg & Galloway, 2005). Of 53 bodybuilders who used anabolic steroids, 27 (51%) reported unspecified mood disturbance (Lindstrom et al, 1990).The above-mentioned study by Pope & Katz (1988) involving 41 steroid-using bodybuilders used structured interviews to measure affective symptoms according to DSM–III–R criteria. They identified 5 participants (12.2%) who met the criteria for a manic episode during steroid exposure; a further 8 (19.5%) only narrowly missed the diagnosis. Significantly more participants developed a full affective syndrome during periods of steroid exposure (22%) than non-exposure (5%), and 10 were ‘stacking’ when they experienced manic symptoms.In a later prospective study, Pope and colleagues (2000) gave placebo or 600 mg testosterone to males aged 20–50 years with no history of steroid use or past psychiatric illness. In the testosterone group, 6% of the men becoming mildly hypomanic and 4% becoming markedly hypomanic.Su et al(1993) administered methyltestosterone (40 or 240 mg/day) or placebo to 20-year-old healthy men, and one participant developed an acute manic episode.There is also evidence that depression can be associated with withdrawing from steroids: in Pope & Katz’s original (1988) study 12.2% of those using anabolic steroids developed DSM–III–R major depression when they stopped taking the drugs.""

here you go, a nice collection of studies that controdict everything you have said regarding every aspect of steroid use. i pasted just the psychosis bit, seeing you only see roid rage as psychosis..even though thats not even what rage means.

http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/13/3/203.full#ref-25

 

[zygote404]

""Psychiatric complications

Anabolic steroids have been associated with a range of psychiatric symptoms, although the limited research literature in this area does not yet prove a causal link.

*snip*

That's nice though its an article that references studies and makes its own conclusions rather than a study that shows method and result. It also tellingly states on the first line - although the limited research literature in this area does not yet prove a causal link.
This is better imo.

In humans and animals, anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) increase aggression, but the underlying behavioral mechanisms are unclear. (PROPOSITION) AAS may increase the motivation to fight. Alternatively, AAS may increase impulsive behavior, consistent with the popular image of ‘roid rage. To test this, adolescent male rats were treated chronically with testosterone (7.5 mg/kg) or vehicle and tested for aggressive motivation and impulsivity. Rats were trained to respond on a nose-poke on a 10 min fixed-interval schedule for the opportunity to fight in their home cage with an unfamiliar rat. Although testosterone increased aggression (6.3±1.3 fights/5 min vs 2.4±0.8 for controls, p<0.05), there was no difference in operant responding (28.4±1.6 nose-pokes/ 10 min for testosterone, 32.4±7.0 for vehicle). (FINDING 1) This suggests that testosterone does not enhance motivation for aggression. To test for impulsivity, rats were trained to respond for food in a delay-discounting procedure. In an operant chamber, one lever delivered one food pellet immediately, the other lever gave 4 pellets after a delay (0, 15, 30 or 45 s). In testosterone- and vehicle-treated rats, body weights and food intake did not differ. However, testosterone-treated rats chose the larger, delayed reward more often (4.5±0.7 times in 10 trials with 45 s delay) than vehicle controls (2.5±0.5 times, p<0.05), consistent with a reduction in impulsive choice. Thus, (FINDING 2) although chronic high-dose testosterone enhances aggression, this does not include an increase in impulsive behavior or motivation to fight. This is further supported by measurement of tyrosine hydroxylase (TH) by Western immunoblot analysis in brain regions important for motivation (nucleus accumbens, Acb) and executive function (medial prefrontal cortex, PFC). There were no differences in TH between testosterone- and vehicle-treated rats in Acb or PFC. However, testosterone significantly reduced TH (to 76.9±3.1% of controls, p<0.05) in the caudate-putamen, a brain area important for behavioral inhibition, motor control and habit learning.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3615053/

 

[Johnnie Walker]

so it needs to be a study on a study? cant just be an article referencing studies?

god your an idiot lol

and what about every other study regarding the effects of steroids?

you have just been presented a ton of studies to contradict what you have posted, take it like a man.

 

[zygote404]

so it needs to be a study on a study? cant just be an article referencing studies?

god your an idiot lol

and what about every other study regarding the effects of steroids?

you have just been presented a ton of studies to contradict what you have posted, take it like a man.

Your article is good however your trying to make a causal relationship between steroids and "roid rage". Your article specifically states there there is no proof of a causal link. It then makes conclusions from second hand studies that are not available. My studies are first hand studies, they propose links, show how the study was performed and then make conclusions based on the results so they're better evidence because they're first hand. They're not making conclusions on other peoples conclusions. Your study could have been written by a couple of students for all we know. Mine were written by experts.

 

[Johnnie Walker]

so your studies are better than my strudies that contradict?

LOL, get over your self.

 

[zygote404]

so your studies are better than my strudies that contradict?

LOL, get over your self.

Nope your article (it isn't a study) proposes that the studies it references made those conclusions. But it also stated there is not evidence of a causal link between steroids or roid rage which is contradictory. My studies (which are actual studies) suggest (but don't prove conclusively) the opposite of what your article says.

I think we should just agree to disagree on this. Its apparent the truth hasn't been conclusively established either way.

 

[Johnnie Walker]

go and read the studies it cites, says exactly what is referenced in the article.

seems pretty clear the only person your desperately trying to convince is your self. having some steroid dependency issues? feel guilty about what you might be doing to yourself?

 

[El Testicle]

I feel guilty after I masturbate sometimes...

 

[White_Lie]

I feel guilty after I masturbate sometimes...

No. No you don't.

 

[El Testicle]

No. No you don't.

Ok.. you got me

 

[Repacked]

I check into this thread to extend my edumacation.

 

[Darkoz]

A drug user is always in denial

 

[El Testicle]

I am denial about my masturbation... not so much my drugs.

 

[boonie]

You honestly can't believe that aas don't have negative side effects???? I don't see how high bp is a positive thing, one of the most common sides.

 

[Repacked]

I like to masturbate when I'm on drugs but if anyone asks me I'll deny it.

 

[El Testicle]

Nice! all the bases covered [MENTION=17457]Repacked[/MENTION];