A good (cheap) meal plan more focused on toning?

[MaxBrenner]

If i was you i would substitute some of your carbohydrates such as your pasta or white bread for either whole wheat bread or better still some oatmeal. It is still cheap but will have less effect on blood sugar, therefore allowing for less fat storage.

Hmmmm strong pseudo-science right there.

Carbohydrate type/GI has no to little effect on both blood sugar and 'fat storage'. In the context of a mixed diet (consuming protein, carbohydrates and fats) GI has no relevance on body composition or fat oxidation (1). Study/s have had not shown any differing response to the 'GI' of a food in a diet made up of 65% carbohydrates, 15% fats and 25% protein nor on a CALORIE RESTRICTED diet (2).

1. Glycaemic Index Effects on Fuel Partitioning in Humans - Research Review | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

2. http://www.ajcn.org/content/85/4/1023.full.pdf

 

[SUAS]

Hmmmm strong pseudo-science right there.

Carbohydrate type/GI has no to little effect on both blood sugar and 'fat storage'. In the context of a mixed diet (consuming protein, carbohydrates and fats) GI has no relevance on body composition or fat oxidation (1). Study/s have had not shown any differing response to the 'GI' of a food in a diet made up of 65% carbohydrates, 15% fats and 25% protein nor on a CALORIE RESTRICTED diet (2).

1. Glycaemic Index Effects on Fuel Partitioning in Humans - Research Review | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

2. http://www.ajcn.org/content/85/4/1023.full.pdf

got to say i resent the "pseudo-science" comment

I agree that mixing food is obviously going to have a different affect on blood sugar..hence the reason i never said to follow the glycemic index. Just pointing out that in general something like oatmeal is less processed and probably going to be handled by the body more than white bread. If you look at his diet he is clearly not mixing much food together. There is little protein and little fat in his diet. basically just a collection of crappy carbs. therefore gram for gram clean food is always going to be better than junk.

Do you not agree that white bread has no nutritional value (basically junk food) compared to oatmeal?

Take a look at this study for example-
Glycemic index and obesity.
Its comparing diets equal in calories. High GI was shown to affect blood sugar far more than low GI. thus high GI gained more weight in the study.

 

[MaxBrenner]

got to say i resent the "pseudo-science" comment

I agree that mixing food is obviously going to have a different affect on blood sugar..hence the reason i never said to follow the glycemic index. Just pointing out that in general something like oatmeal is less processed and probably going to be handled by the body more than white bread. If you look at his diet he is clearly not mixing much food together. There is little protein and little fat in his diet. basically just a collection of crappy carbs. therefore gram for gram clean food is always going to be better than junk.

Do you not agree that white bread has no nutritional value (basically junk food) compared to oatmeal?

Take a look at this study for example-
Glycemic index and obesity.

Its comparing diets equal in calories. High GI was shown to affect blood sugar far more than low GI. thus high GI gained more weight in the study.

So even though all the diets were equal in 'calories' was the body composition the same in all the test subjects and therefore was it of equal calorie deficit and was the macronutrient breakdown identical? I'd suggest not.

A food type being 'processed' has nothing to do with how it is 'handled' by the body. A calorie is a calorie regardless of where it is from.

See all -

Hormonal Responses to a Fast-Food Meal Compared with Nutritionally Comparable Meals of Different Composition – Research Review | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

The Effect of Two Energy-Restricted Diets, a Low-Fructose Diet vs. a Moderate Natural Fructose Diet – Research Review | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

Is a Calorie a Calorie? | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

GI & OBESITY - SLIM CHANCE FOR CORRELATION (care of Alan Aragon)

a systematic review of human intervention studies comparing the effects of high and low-GI foods or diets arrived at the following results (Raben A. Should obese patients be counselled to follow a low-glycaemic index diet? No. Obes Rev. 2002 Nov;3(4):245-56):
---- in a total of 31 short-term studies, low-GI foods were associated with greater satiety or reduced hunger in 15 studies, whereas reduced satiety or no differences were seen in 16 other studies.
---- low-GI foods reduced ad libitum food intake in 7 studies, but not in 8 other studies. In 20 longer-term studies (<6 months), weight loss on a low-GI diet was seen in 4 and on a high-GI diet in 2, with no difference recorded in 14 studies.
---- an exhaustive assessment of these human intervention trials found no significant difference in the average weight loss between low & high GI diets. in conclusion, the current body of research evidence does not indicate that low-GI foods are superior to high-GI foods in regard to treating obesity.

Nutritional Values -

Oats- Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Cereals, oats, regular and quick and instant, not fortified, dry [oatmeal, old-fashioned oats, rolled oats]

White Flour - Side by Side Nutrition Facts Comparison for Wheat Flour Whole-Grain - Wheat Flour White Bread Enriched -

Oats may have a slight advantage 'nutritionally' but it is trivial and means little in the context of a mixed diet.

I agree that his diet is deficient in a number of area's but as I had previously outlined to the OP. Once he is consuming adequate essential Macronutients the balance of his diet will be more complete and have less Micronutrient deficiencies also. My main concern with your post was 1. in regards to extra fat gain because of food choice - which is false and 2. you did mention blood sugar and the food choice having less effect on it - again false unless you fulfill ALL of the following conditions: a) you consume a high-carb/low-protein/low-fat/low-fiber diet, b) you remain in a chronically hypercaloric state for the purpose of weight gain, and c) you remain sedentary while maintaining conditions a & b. Then & only then might GI matter.

If your diet is macronutritionally sound & predominated with whole & minimally refined foods, then you are worrying about nothing.

 

[SUAS]

If your diet is macronutritionally sound & predominated with whole & minimally refined foods, then you are worrying about nothing.

we agree then.

 

[MaxBrenner]

we agree then.

 

[SUAS]

on a side note its good to see somebody actually arguing with scientific evidence for a change. look forward to reading some of your other posts when i have more than 2 mins to spare.

 

[MaxBrenner]

on a side note its good to see somebody actually discussing with scientific evidence for a change. look forward to reading some of your other posts when i have more than 2 mins to spare.

Fixed

No problem at all and welcome

 

[megaphoenix]

wow, there is a lot more helpful info here

I thought i read that rolled oats (the type you get home brand at coles/woolies) were bad for you in the sense pancakes were (ie: just no nutrional value).

If salada type crackers arent really good, is there perhaps a similar snack? I started eating more healthy yesterday and i was using cucumber slices on salada as a snack. Since i want cucumber slices, is there a comparable snack in terms of convienence and cheap that might be better? If i sliced a few bits of cucumber and cut some little squares of ham to make little mini "cucumber ham sandwiches", could that be a good idea?

with being dehydrated after exercising, i assume a (more than just water) drink might help too. Water, an Egg and say a little bit of powdered milk all mixed together? that should help with protein and i believe with all that, it should fix any of the "bad" and replaced it with more "good"? i cant give up white bread though, its so cheap and i love toast

 

[The Hamburgler]

Muscle Tone

"In physiology, medicine, and anatomy, muscle tone (residual muscle tension or tonus) is the continuous and passive partial contraction of the muscles, or the muscle’s resistance to passive stretch during resting state.[1] It helps maintain posture, and it declines during REM sleep."

 

[MaxBrenner]

wow, there is a lot more helpful info here

I thought i read that rolled oats (the type you get home brand at coles/woolies) were bad for you in the sense pancakes were (ie: just no nutrional value).

If salada type crackers arent really good, is there perhaps a similar snack? I started eating more healthy yesterday and i was using cucumber slices on salada as a snack. Since i want cucumber slices, is there a comparable snack in terms of convienence and cheap that might be better? If i sliced a few bits of cucumber and cut some little squares of ham to make little mini "cucumber ham sandwiches", could that be a good idea?

with being dehydrated after exercising, i assume a (more than just water) drink might help too. Water, an Egg and say a little bit of powdered milk all mixed together? that should help with protein and i believe with all that, it should fix any of the "bad" and replaced it with more "good"? i cant give up white bread though, its so cheap and i love toast

Have a read of these -

The Dirt on Clean Eating | Wannabebig

Milk as an Effective Post-Exercise Rehydration Drink | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

Milk: The New Sports Drink? A Review | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

An Objective Comparison of Chocolate Milk and Surge Recovery | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

FYI, cook your eggs. You only get 50% nutrient absorption when consuming a raw egg!

 

[SUAS]

Just a question for you MaxBrenner

Taking the research you mentioned into consideration would you say that the obesity problem in society is caused by too many calories in diets rather than out of control blood sugar levels?

 

[MaxBrenner]

I'd say the obesity problem is due to consuming far to many calories on top of being inactive. Combined a calorie surplus with a extremely high carbohydrate intake and inactivity is what contributes to the outta control BSL and diabetes type 2 increase.

Also a poor micronutrient intake and poor macronutrient breakdown, leading to a number of nutritional deficiencies that have many long term health implications.

Yet if you follow many of the nutritional RDA's and 'healthy food pyramid' that the governments promote, you can understand how the general public has a poor understanding of nutrition and individual nutritional requirements etc.

 

[SUAS]

sorry megaphoenix all this talk may have left you more confused than to begin with? Are you happy with the content of the thread or would you like us to help structure a rough eating/workout plan for you?