3 x 8 or 5 x 5?

[bigruff]

Good video alpha.
@bigruff ; Sheiko works on adding volume, arguably the most succesful powerlifting routine (one used by massive bastards and the same bodybuilder in the above video). The old adage 'to bench more bench more' means do more volume per week. Many bodybuilders will cite increased volume as a good thing to do. PTC routines I've seen people do (including one I'm doing now) progressively adds volume and it delivers results.

I believe adding volume is a very foolproof way to get results. It's hard manipulating intensity and other factors (forced reps, slow eccentrics, etc.). If you do these things, I would say that's fine but keep them constant and add volume.

I just spent a long time trying this and that, and didn't keep stuff constant.
e.g. one week 10 sets of 6-8 reps on incline bench, all to failure
another week 8 sets, a bit heavier weight, every set after 2nd to failure.
another week 7 sets, pausing at the chest, slightly heavier again, only last 2 to failure.

Was never sure I was doing more, and the results I got were haphazard - ups and downs. if I'd done something like the following results would have improved
5 sets of incline with pauses, 80kgx5
5 sets of incline with pauses, 80kgx5 + 2 sets of 65kgx8
5 sets of incline with pauses, 80kgx5 + 3 sets of 65kgx8.
Reset to 5 sets of incline with 82.5kg + 1 set of incline 70x8.

Thanks jj, I've never actually looked at the Sheiko program... I'll have a gander at it now.

Is it actually better to gradually add volume over a matter of weeks rather than doing lots of volume from the start? I didn't think it would make a difference as long as my strength was going up for my max lifts.

 

[steveP]

I found this link a little while ago which was interesting regarding optimal reps.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/topicoftheweek8.htm

 

[jj80]

Always better to gradually add volume. So to start with I'd say you are looking at 5x5 OR 3x8.

When I could bench 120 as a max I just did 5x5 twice a week on bench / overhead press to get me there. I did some front delt accessory work too, lateral raises with 3x10 and a lot of chin ups and rows.
To get to 130 I did PPP which was 5 sets of bench plus 3 sets of incline plus 3 sets of dips to start with. I did all my shoulder and back work on top of that. I ramped it up to 5 sets of incline and 5 sets of dips, but then I got pretty random with my volume. Time constraints from work and study chipped into my workouts, then I went on a cut and I'm only just now trying to go up from 130kg.

 

[Rugby88]

I think some people are getting lost from the OP - I thought he was after size over strength? now sheiko is the answer? fantastic plan for strength - not so much for for size.

 

[Bazza20]

Get stronger and you will get bigger.

Pick a rep range you enjoy and work at getting stronger at that.

Worry about fancy bodybuilding techniques when you are really fucking strong.

 

[Goosey]

Get stronger and you will get bigger.

Pick a rep range you enjoy and work at getting stronger at that.

Worry about fancy bodybuilding techniques when you are really fucking strong.

very nice, post of the day.
this thinking is as old as dirt, and works.

 

[RyanF]

 

[Shrek]

You don't have to be really strong to adopt bodybuilding. Get that through your skulls.

 

[Bazza20]

You don't have to be really strong to adopt bodybuilding. Get that through your skulls.

Yeah coz all the big guys are weak as piss.

 

[Shrek]

Get bigger and you will get stronger. I don't care about strength anyhow, just muscles.

 

[0ni]

I know a lot of people with huge legs that never go over 3 plates on the squat or the bench press
That said I think getting stronger with reps is a great way to gain size but at the end of the day its volume that makes you bigger- and stronger

3x8 or 5x5 is not a lot of volume at all and I would be very surprised is someone ever developed a decent physique on such a low amount of volume. I don't think getting stronger is really the best way to get bigger at all but increasing volume is a good proxy to achieve both

 

[Bazza20]

Get bigger and you will get stronger. I don't care about strength anyhow, just muscles.

And to get bigger you need to get stronger in some way, no way around it unless you go down the drugs path.

 

[Shrek]

Ok in sorry you're correct bazza, everyone has been doing it wrong for years. I take it all back.

 

[jj80]

I know a lot of people with huge legs that never go over 3 plates on the squat or the bench press
That said I think getting stronger with reps is a great way to gain size but at the end of the day its volume that makes you bigger- and stronger

3x8 or 5x5 is not a lot of volume at all and I would be very surprised is someone ever developed a decent physique on such a low amount of volume. I don't think getting stronger is really the best way to get bigger at all but increasing volume is a good proxy to achieve both

Amen but 5x5 even alone is good for a noob I think, for reasons bazza said earlier (and every good coach reiterates) - that is form doesnt get shitty like it does on the final reps of a 10 rep set. Especially I'm finding for squat and deads - I do 5x5 to technique failure.

Bazza has a good often overlooked point though too - pick a rep range you like. I reckon this is key.

 

[0ni]

Amen but 5x5 even alone is good for a noob I think, for reasons bazza said earlier (and every good coach reiterates) - that is form doesnt get shitty like it does on the final reps of a 10 rep set. Especially I'm finding for squat and deads - I do 5x5 to technique failure.

Bazza has a good often overlooked point though too - pick a rep range you like. I reckon this is key.

I have noticed that a lot of the time this comes down to exercise selection. Form does get shitty especially with a novice as they don't have very good motor skills at all especially if they have not done any sort of sport before. I have noticed thought that more often than not this comes down to simply avoiding some exercises. There is a lot of dogmatism that a beginner HAS to squat, bench and deadlift when IMO none of these are particularly good at first and you're not really going to be able to train very hard if you stick to these exercises because the motor skills are too shitty to allow a decent workout. However incline bench most people can just lay on the bench and press perfectly and there is a very small learning curve involved. Instead of deadlifting they can do pull-ups and pulldowns just fine and I have never met anyone unable to do a pull-down. Then they can focus on the squat as one technical exercise is much easier to learn than 3 or 4. If they can't squat then most people can front squat good first time. I think the front squat is great for the novice. Now keeping the reps low and the sets high will allow you to build the motor skills efficiently. This isn't the best thing for hypertrophy though so they can finish it off with some leg press, leg extensions and leg curls. Again this is something many people will shun because a beginner "doesn't need" to do these things when they can concentrate on squatting. Well if they can't get a decent squat session done because they are too uncoordinated to rep out for 20 reps they need to adapt to this and find something that allows them to stimulate the muscle enough to get growth

 

[Bazza20]

Ok in sorry you're correct bazza, everyone has been doing it wrong for years. I take it all back.

Stop deleting my posts that don't agree with you.

No one has been doing it wrong apart from you I would guess.

Techniques used to get bigger all involve getting stronger in some way.

Move volume
Super slow reps
Drop sets
Ect

All Involve getting stronger in some way.

Strength doesn't just mean 1RM. lol.

If you can do 10 reps of 100kg bench.

2 months later can do 10 reps of 100 with a super slow negative. You are stronger

Or you can do 10 sets x 10 reps of 100kg you are stronger.

If you are progressively getting weaker over time you are not going to be getting bigger.

 

[Rugby88]

Both come hand in hand i.e lifting weight will get you stronger and of course help you build muscle - both will happen no matter the set/rep/powerlifting/bodybuilding/oly lifting style you follow - the end result of lifting weight will be Strength & Muscle - depending on which road you focus on the most though will depend on your goals - you could focus on powerlifting where 70% of it is strength and 30% will be muscle - as a result of your training - then you could focus on bodybuilding where 80% is muscle and 20% of it is strength - but due to the fact your gaining so much muscle your of course stronger than a normal man.

In all goes with eachother - just depends on which road you focus on in regards to what results you get - be it stronger (key er) or bigger (key er)....

Some freaky people have the best of both worlds and can look like a pro bber and have the strength of a strongman but normally one factor will out weigh the other depending on goal.

 

[Goosey]

To [MENTION=895]Shrek[/MENTION]; and [MENTION=3034]Rugby88[/MENTION];

just explain this.

In your minds, (in a seasoned trainer) just how exactly (but simply) if you can, does a particular muscle increase in strength?

 

[Goosey]

Stop deleting my posts that don't agree with you.

No one has been doing it wrong apart from you I would guess.

Techniques used to get bigger all involve getting stronger in some way.

Move volume
Super slow reps
Drop sets
Ect

All Involve getting stronger in some way.

Strength doesn't just mean 1RM. lol.

If you can do 10 reps of 100kg bench.

2 months later can do 10 reps of 100 with a super slow negative. You are stronger

Or you can do 10 sets x 10 reps of 100kg you are stronger.

If you are progressively getting weaker over time you are not going to be getting bigger.

This has always been my understanding of it (resistance work).

 

[Shrek]

@ Bazza20; not reading your post. You're not worth my time.

[MENTION=3627]Silverback[/MENTION]; bazza said get stronger before doing bodybuilding. Why? If strength is not of primary concern then doing bb style training is fine. Do you think I care if I can squat 200. No but I do like big quads and it can happen without a 200 squat. Yed building muscle will get you stronger but that's of secondary importance to a bb.