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2014 World weightlifting champs positive drug tests

as for Australia, we do like other sports like rugby, cycling and swimming.

and you will be pleased to know we still well in the important money sports, much bigger than weightlifting, despite some of the most stringent testing.

So what do you mean that Australia does not want to do well?

Again give evidence?
 
spartacus said:
In countries like Australia, we are now blessed that young weightlifters are no longer simply given drugs by clubs and doctors, as they were in the 1980s.
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We are also blessed with freedom of choice and some still choose. Until they are busted (in other words their celebrity card expires - no tin foil hats - it's real) we should presume that testing is effective and that people competing in a tested environment do not have to be subject to reverse burden of proof.
 
vonfram88 said:
We are also blessed with freedom of choice and some still choose. Until they are busted (in other words their celebrity card expires - no tin foil hats - it's real) we should presume that testing is effective and that people competing in a tested environment do not have to be subject to reverse burden of proof.
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Yes, that has to be the case. I am sure there are some still dabbling, but you are only guilty if you are caught. In the case of the Greek 200m Olympic champion, no failed drug test but he never ran again. I think everyone outside Greece can logically determine the truth.

My point was merely to argue that cheating a drug tested sport, especially a high profile sport, has become that much harder.
 
spartacus said:
mate, you need to read the news....
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That's exactly what I'm talking about Spartacus. You're totally missing my point and what I'm writing here mate. You see, I do not need to read the news, that's just it, can't you see what I'm saying here! The news is for the consumption of the general public. Remember when I mentioned the selective punishment or reprieve! I was interviewed by ABC TV back in the 80s, and I was told what to say when asked about steroid usage. The whole AIS weightlifting program was shut down because of steroids. Not because people at the top didn't know what was going on at the AIS, but because of two (yes you read correctly), two weightlifters who decided to go to the media, go public and break rank, not thinking past their noses. Now you'd tell me yeh Fadi, but that was back in the 80s, and then you go on to say something like the following...

In countries like Australia, we are now blessed that young weightlifters are no longer simply given drugs by clubs and doctors, as they were in the 1980s.
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You call it a blessing, I don't! I think there is a better way. And since we live in a society where we are blessed to exercise freedom of choice, a choice that allows us to consume poison (as in alcohol and cigarettes), why not steroids? Why would you call both doctor and athlete a bunch of cheats when it comes to steroids, but not the enjoyment of alcohol and tobacco, which are legal in this country. Some might say that that's exactly why, because alcohol and tobacco is legal, then we should just carry on with it. I say this is hypocrisy of the highest order!

So what do you mean that Australia does not want to do well?
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Well that depends by what you consider to be "well". I'm no longer an Olympic weightlifter, but I believe you still are, correct me if I'm wrong please. What would you consider to be well (as in achievements) after you put in 8, 10, 12 or so workouts a week in order to improve your technique and lift heavier weights overhead? A state title or a world record? I'm speaking for lifters who wish to go all the way, all the way in a responsible manner, under the guidance of both coaches and doctors. What's so damn wrong with that, please enlighten me Spartacus. Thank you.
 
no, you implied earlier that testing has failed.

I totally disagree, although I recognise the imperfect nature of testing protocols.

As for one of the people who lagged on weightlifting, are you talking about Britain. He surely cannot be blamed for weightlifting's plight for expressing his experience.

I actually agree with some of what he said. I also witnessed it.

I think there are a whole lot of reasons why certain sports still get govt assistance, although personally I reckon it is mostly a waste of public resources. But that is another story.

As I have consistently stated, it is indeed a lot harder to cheat in most sports today.
 
When you've got State run PED programs, I think it is very very naive to believe any testing is close to foolproof. Look at Lance Armstrong, and he wasn't even in a State run PED program.
 
who said it was foolproof, I said it is much harder to cheat. This is a fact, read the numbers that are caught.

Testing has now been joined by other info, that is how Marion Jones and Armstrong got caught, again examples of how it is now much harder to cheat.
 
further, if it was completely state run, then Russians would never be caught.

They are caught because there a whole lot of domestic and international factors at play, which even makes it increasingly harder to cheat in Russia.

Even with powertlifting, some of Russia's greatest ever lifters have been caught and banned from the IPF.

So just how viable are state run programs today when compared to the 1980s

Again, look at the evidence, and then tell me that testing has not improved.
 
Fadi, there is nothing stopping an australian weightlifter from succeeding. Fact is little interest in weightlifting in Australia. Best athletes choose many other sports.

did anything stop sally pearson from being Olympic champion in 100m hurdles.

get over excuses please.
 
spartacus said:
no, you implied earlier that testing has failed.

I totally disagree, although I recognise the imperfect nature of testing protocols.

As for one of the people who lagged on weightlifting, are you talking about Britain. He surely cannot be blamed for weightlifting's plight for expressing his experience.

I actually agree with some of what he said. I also witnessed it.

I think there are a whole lot of reasons why certain sports still get govt assistance, although personally I reckon it is mostly a waste of public resources. But that is another story.

As I have consistently stated, it is indeed a lot harder to cheat in most sports today.
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Who is Britain? I was referring back to around 1986/87 and two of AIS's weightlifters spilling the beans to the media by going on national TV. It was a big news item back in the mid 80s. As for drug testing failure or success, you and I would simply have to agree to disagree, and I respect that brother. I have no problem with that.
 
spartacus said:
Fadi, there is nothing stopping an australian weightlifter from succeeding. Fact is little interest in weightlifting in Australia. Best athletes choose many other sports.

did anything stop sally pearson from being Olympic champion in 100m hurdles.

get over excuses please.
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I don't believe in excuses, but in reality when it comes to the sport of weightlifting. 100m hurdles I know nothing about. I wish you all the best mate.

Please define succeeding, as you have previously used the term "well". Either well or succeeding might, (just might) have different meanings to either of us. And you need to respect that mate, you don't have to accept it though.
 
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Michael Britain was a key witness at 1988 senate inquiry into drugs. Quite a good lifter.

Yes, we can agree to disagree. There are strengths and weaknesses in the pro and anti-drug testing effort, and I have also documented some of these.
 
fadi, in the case of weightlifting, tbh, I think it is harder for Australians and weightlifting because less interest in helping to remove some of the loopholes that advantage certain nations.

Like I said already, rowing and athletics have regular meetings to provide points and prizemoney, which would provide a greater window of opportunity to test best from all over world.

Weightlifting, like powerlifting, does not share such developments. It is indeed easier in such sports to hide in one's nation and be advantaged by corrupt practices.

It is a debate that has also been had with regard to Kenyan and Jamaican running success; but now testing protocols in such countries are given greater attention.
 
spartacus said:
who said it was foolproof, I said it is much harder to cheat. This is a fact, read the numbers that are caught.

Testing has now been joined by other info, that is how Marion Jones and Armstrong got caught, again examples of how it is now much harder to cheat.
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Yep, but if others hadn't have come forward Armstrong would still be living high on the hog of glory. It wasn't testing that caught Armstrong. Jones I've forgotten how she was caught, I assume that was by witnesses not actual testing.


In Russia (and North Korea etc.), you talk and testify, we shoot you!
 
El Stiffy said:
Yep, but if others hadn't have come forward Armstrong would still be living high on the hog of glory. It wasn't testing that caught Armstrong. Jones I've forgotten how she was caught, I assume that was by witnesses not actual testing.


In Russia (and North Korea etc.), you talk and testify, we shoot you!
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Hahaha, I needed that last sentence of yours, brought me a smile. Thanks brother :D!!
 
stiffy, yes testing is just one means to catch people. I should have made that clearer.

https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/WADA-2013-Anti-Doping-Testing-Figures-LABORATORY-REPORT.pdf

You can see here that testosterone has the greatest number of positive results for all sports.

A positive test for HGH very rare, none in 2013.

Succeeding or doing well? success is obviously winning global medals or trophies, doing well means being in top level.

As for Australia, they succeed and do well, as indicated by Olympic medals in swimming and cycling. These are two sports that Australians love, are heavily drug tested, and amongst the major individual Olympic games sports.

Example of success in major drug tested sport by international standards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_UCI_Track_Cycling_World_Championships
 
El Stiffy said:
Yep, but if others hadn't have come forward Armstrong would still be living high on the hog of glory. It wasn't testing that caught Armstrong. Jones I've forgotten how she was caught, I assume that was by witnesses not actual testing.


In Russia (and North Korea etc.), you talk and testify, we shoot you!
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From memory, her boyfriend, the shot putter got done for Stanazolol, was some pressure on her as to his testimony and she just came out and admitted it. They gave her no mercy.
 
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