Pre workout supps..what to take?

[BoyFromAus]

Majority of pre-WO supps i've seen contain Creatine and Caffeine and some designer blend which is beyond my vocabulary. Caffeine is a diuretic and creatine requires hydration... I don't understand why both are stacked together.

 

[stralian]

Majority of pre-WO supps i've seen contain Creatine and Caffeine and some designer blend which is beyond my vocabulary. Caffeine is a diuretic and creatine requires hydration... I don't understand why both are stacked together.

Because the caffeine hit gives them a massive buzz so they think they can perform better.
The creatine is just in there so it can make it on the label and sell more bottles.

It appears there's already been a study proving they shouldn't be together.
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=Vandenberghe+K%2C+Gillis+N%2C+Van+Leemputte+M%2C+Van+Hecke+P%2C+Vanstapel+F%2C+Hespel+P.+(February+1996)+Caffeine+counteracts+the+ergogenic+action+of+muscle+creatine+loading.+Journal+of+Applied+Physiology+Volume+80%3A2%3A+pages+452-457.&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=


Back to the main topic though...
Fadi's suggestions are below in italics.
(From http://ausbb.com/nutrition-diet/9001-3200-calorie-food-plan.html#post64110)


Before/During Workout Energy Drink: 6g WPI, 40g Oatmass, 400ml water
Or--------------------------------------------6g WPI, 25g WMS, 400ml water
Or--------------------------------------------45g 1 ½ thin slice white bread, 5g WPI, water
Or------------------------------------------- 125g White potato boiled, 5g WPI, water


I personally go with WMS and WPI in Water and find it works quite well

 

[howzit]

oh and thanks raphsta for backing me up dude.

howzit... mate they do have creatine in them. read labels, it does wonders
100grams of creatine pre workout wont do any good mate it only takes maby 5 grams pre or post for sufficient protein synthesis... some people choose to load in times of very stressfull routines. some of that will go to waste but its always just for that little more gain...

Who said anything about 100g?

I said that NO-Xplode isn't A creatine, I didn't say "NO-Xplode doesn't have any creatine." It's primary function is not creatine [hense the low amount and the need for Cellmass or Size-On (creatine supplements)].

I've taken creatine alone by itself in the past and haven't experienced the gains I have since I started taking a nitric oxide supp. I first took it with the mindset that it's **** and doesn't work, additional strength gains and energy boosts have proven to me that it is worthwhile (I can get an extra 5 good reps on deadlifts). My dad has also taken it and generally he is slow in the gym, but I could tell it helped him (I didn't tell him what it was).

Also, if they want someone to buy their creatine products, why would they put a sufficient amount in them?

*EDIT* wtf is a sport's gel?

 

[MADDYSMUM]

Hi and thanks guys. Now I take a tsp of creatine in water pre workout.
Should I be taking it post workout too. I have my protein shake and Lucine mixed into it. Tell me if this is wrong please?

 

[howzit]

Creatine should be taken post workout.

 

[Shrek]

Hi and thanks guys. Now I take a tsp of creatine in water pre workout.
Should I be taking it post workout too. I have my protein shake and Lucine mixed into it. Tell me if this is wrong please?

Creatine can be taken anytime of day, does not have to be pre or post workout.

Carbs is the best pre workout suppl.

Eat a potato with 4 eggs or with 250gms cottage cheese 1hr before workout. I do.

You can take leucine pre and post workout if you like.

 

[epicsupplements]

best thing to take pre workout is either a good pre workout formula like no-explode or something like horsepower by ultimate nutrition best thing to have post is a whey protein isolate or mass stack creatine like cell tech

 

[Josh_GTiR]

You obviously don't read these threads mate. Just pumping the brands you sell isn't very good advice.

 

[Fadi]

Which shows how much of a waste of money such products are.
They contain lots of ingredients, but such small quantities, and lots of bullsh*t ingredients too.
Although, we don't really know how much creatine is in SP250 for example. I'd take a guess at 3g, which I wouldn't really call insufficient.
Gaspari want their customers to buy SP250, and "Size On" which is their intra-workout creatine formula - all their marketing goes on about how well those two products work together.

Anyway...

I like this page on the AIS website, it shows which supplements their athletes use, and the ones that have been shown to be useless.
Australian Institute of Sport :: Classification

Caffeine used to be in their Group A supplements, but now has a note that they no longer use caffeine as a supplement. Would be interesting to find out why..

Raphael, I wrote you a reply then deleted it. To summarise my feelings re what the AIS is saying above I say this: Thank God I'm not at the AIS anymore!

PS: The above is making me say: Let the forces of the AIS and the Heart Foundation join together. I'll give you only one hint that would go to summarise my disgust with all the above talk. Check the heart foundation tick on the "polyunsaturated margarine" next time you pay a visit to your local supermarket. Enough said!


Fadi.

 

[TS153]

I woukdnt take alot of notice of the AIS site.
As there are plenty of supps there in Group C that have alot of research behind them when used in the right situation, especially some of my favs.
ie. BCAA - Im sure you would all agree that they have their place.
Chromiun Picolinate - good for sugar balancing.
Carnitine - mental focus on low calorie diets and proven neurological benfits.
Nitric oxide boosters - good to get blood pumping via vasodilation and increased nutrient uptake
Vitamins - for whatever the reason
ZMA - helps sleep and test production
CoQ10 - has always been a fav of mine but only really noticable when pushing my limits at worst its a good antioxidant.

As for Group B as it says they are researching them
Melatonin - They technically shouldnt be able to give it to their athlete at all apart from a perscription so why was it there to start with.
HMB and Colostrum - Really they have been on that list for years, Im sure they made a verdict by now and how many here actually use these now after trying them in the past ten years.
Beta Alanine though I know they use extensively.

And Caffeine in Group A - all it says is they dont provide it to their athletes meaning that they dont pay for it. Im guessing it just up to the athlete to get it themselves.
In reality it inhibits nutrient uptake by constricting blood vessels and increase release of adrenaline which counter acts what the nitric oxide boosters want to do.
So for building muscle its ideal to steer away.
For the cardio side of things its good for mental focus and increase in fat use for energy which good for those long runs/walks or rides of the exercise bike.

Although saying this you cant deny how good you feel on preworkouts like NoXplode and Superpump and sometimes thats all its about, especially after a hard days work. I use them basically just for this most of the time.

 

[Josh_GTiR]

TS153, I am the same as you. I use a pre-workout drink if I am feeling tired and lethargic after a days work and I am off to the gym. I never use full doses and since I don't drink coffee or anything else that contains caffeine, I find it quite beneficial.

 

[Shame]

Carbs is the best pre workout suppl.

Curious as to your reasoning for this?

 

[gymjunkie]

yeah i quite like these, after a long day at work it can give you that little boost even just to get above that flat feeling. I'm about to try this jack3d product, anyone used it before? It seems to be getting a lot of praise, and supposedly a bit "cleaner" than the other ones. Not sure how accurate that info is though.

 

[BoyFromAus]

yeah i quite like these, after a long day at work it can give you that little boost even just to get above that flat feeling. I'm about to try this jack3d product, anyone used it before? It seems to be getting a lot of praise, and supposedly a bit "cleaner" than the other ones. Not sure how accurate that info is though.

i've used Jack3d a couple of times... i've still got a container of it. 2 scoops of it worked really well for me during the gym except the problem was after.... that night, I couldn't get to sleep cuz i was still buzzing.

But i'm thinking it's just the caffeine which does that. That stuff is kinda loaded with caffeine.

Like I said, i've only used it a couple of times.. only when i really need to.. otherwise it kinda ruins my day.

 

[stralian]

yeah i quite like these, after a long day at work it can give you that little boost even just to get above that flat feeling. I'm about to try this jack3d product, anyone used it before? It seems to be getting a lot of praise, and supposedly a bit "cleaner" than the other ones. Not sure how accurate that info is though.

How much caffeine is in it?
That's right! They don't tell you!
It says they don't use 300,400 or 500mg of caffeine...but that leaves everything below 300.
(by it I mean this: USPLabs Jacked - Jacked By USPLabs)

I have heard a lot of good reviews on bb.com about it...but for me if they don't disclose the caffeine content it's not worth it.
Caffeine and muscle building are not friends in my opinion (Fadi has shown me the light!)
In fact, I would go so far as to say caffeine and the human body are not friends

Also, it says it has no calories. What are you using for energy? Not Jack3d, that's for sure. The caffeine will trick you into thinking you have energy, so it's not that.

I'm sure you already know this but for the benefit of anyone reading this who doesn't, if you're going to take Jack3d/caffeine supp, make sure you're having something else for pre and/or intra workout (WMS,Electrolytes & BCAAs is my pick).

I could be wrong (it's happened before!) but that's my take on things

 

[TS153]

I have used Jack3d and I would say that it is stronger than superppump, noxplode and black powder.
Its definitely my fav at the moment as its milder in flavour and goes down easy without any upsets(atleast for me anyway).
There are a few people that were upset when they changed the formula and took out the sodium bicarbonate that made it fizz and they think it was better.

Jack3d is quite low in caffeine compared to the other preworkouts and it uses I think 2 other stimulants aswell the most notable is the geranium stems which if you are competing in a tested sport I wouldnt use it atleast a week leading up to competition as you could test positive as the compound is very similar to a banned substance and identifying the difference is not likely to happen.

 

[Josh_GTiR]

I am phasing out my use of these pre workouts however, after reading alot of stuff from Fadi about Caffeine I really don't think it is a good solution to a problem.

 

[TS153]

I am phasing out my use of these pre workouts however, after reading alot of stuff from Fadi about Caffeine I really don't think it is a good solution to a problem.

Caffeine definitely isnt the way to go for muscle building as it basically works against what you want to do, I think it does have its place in the cardio side of things though.
And I guess it all depends on what you your ultimate goal is.
For me power to weight ratio is important so it work for me on very specific training days but in general I dont like to use it at all.

 

[Fadi]

Caffeine definitely isnt the way to go for muscle building as it basically works against what you want to do, I think it does have its place in the cardio side of things though.
And I guess it all depends on what you your ultimate goal is.
For me power to weight ratio is important so it work for me on very specific training days but in general I dont like to use it at all.

I used to think like you, not anymore.

http://ausbb.com/nutrition-diet/9441-im-18-i-need-help-weight-loss-pills-2.html#post73736

One would ask; what is the cardio athlete's goal? What is he trying to achieve? Fat loss? Heart/muscle fitness? What?

What caffeine does to your cortisol levels within 1 hour of taking it aside; think about what effect it has on your insulin. No, not caffeine; cortisol. Remember, cortisol was stimulated by caffeine and now you're faced with the consequences of raised cortisol blood levels. Unlike adrenaline, cortisol is very slow to come back down to normal levels.

I'll tell you what it does to your insulin; it makes it resistant. That Sir equals an invitation to a rise in fat mass. Now, what was the cardio athlete's goal again?! Some icing on the cake just incase I haven't said enough yet; it increases one's appetite. No, not for vegetables, but for something that will raise your blood sugar quickly like a high GI food. It's about time we looked else where for an alternative to that energy boost and fat loss we’re seeking so much from our "friendly" caffeine.

Remember the Caffeine Blues written by our own Stephen Cherniske? Well, there's a book called The Cortisol Connection by Shawn Talbott, PH.D., which provides an even stronger picture of what happens in the body when you live awash in cortisol.

Caffeine definitely isnt the way to go for muscle building as it basically works against what you want to do,

Since fat burns in the engine of muscle, anything that takes my muscles away would by necessity have a most detrimental effect upon my ability in reducing my fat mass.

Fadi.

 

[Jman_898]

as for pre workout supps im using horse power by ultimate nutrition. it has 0 caffiene in it. it still contains nearly 4grams of creatine (split into 3 types) and has nitric oxide.... creatine utilizes water and caffiene dehydrates the system so i think everyone here has agreed that caffiene isnt good in pre workouts other than giving an energy boost which some may find good... but i choose to keep away from them, i do however love the sensation that the nitric oxide creates, the tingly sensation throughout the extremedies. i choose to use this product and possibly at a later stage a post creatine too just for experimenting.... other than being told that the system will reject it i figure its worth a try... just my 2 cents