help with squats

[madpie]

hi all

well, i'm getting ready to get into some serious training after a rather lengthy patch of inconsistent training due to injury, lack of motivation and laziness. however, joining up on this forum has got my head in a positive mindset once again and motivated me to start taking this seriously once more and see just how far i can push it (BW 100kg?)

BUT before i can start pushing it hard, i have a few small issues to sort out, one of the biggest being my squat.

the problem: i am a relatively tall guy 6'1.5 with long legs which have been neglected somewhat over the years. (think average legs for a guy my height, but more muscular torso). this causes a few problems with my squat, the most noticable one being balance. i fold excessively when i squat, most likely due to a number of factors - limited flexibility, higher centre of gravity (i.e. pushing the torse forward helps balance) etc

i have had two leg workouts since starting training again. two sundays ago i did quarter squats (as going any deeper resulted in me dipping my arse or knees coming forward). i lifted modest weight (90kg) and was sore for 6 days. last sunday, i put plates under my heels, lifted even lighter (60kg), but did deep squats, or at least parallel. this felt quite good, although i've heard mixed things about using plates under your heels. however, this did enable me to squat a lot deeper without folding anywhere near as much. surprisingly tho, i did not get sore from this at all.

anyway, thats my background. would anyone have any advice on improving my squat technique so that somewhere down the track (i am going to do Fadi's 6 wk program first) i can start squatting heavy and beefing up my wheels? also, does anyone have recommendations on depth of squat and whether or not i should use plates under my heels?

cheers

If your struggling with the squats,drop the weights bro and work on the technique first.Grab someone at the gym who knows how to squat and get them to check your form.
A good alternative is if your gym has a hack squat machine try facing the machine and doing reverse hack squats,make sure you stick you a ss out and you will be able to go down very low and it isolates the thighs for a great pump.

 

[NPR]

Maybe he wants to do something usefull rather than just chasing a pump?

 

[pistachio]

I'm over 6"1' with long legs and a short torso too, squatting is my forte. Dont even think about using it as a cop out.

Core strength and flexibility, end of story.

ok mate, i think you are right...

i did front squats yesterday as part of my new 'primer program'. i couldn't even make it through the 30 reps cos my whole lower back was absolutey throbbing! i thought i had a lot more strength in my lower back, but evidently not. i am going to stick with these over the 6 weeks and hopefully by the end of it, my lower back will have strengthened up a bit.

only prob i have with front squats is how do you hold the weight? i mean i am lifting bugger all at the moment, and it doesn't exactly rest comfortably on my shoulders/arms/chest. so when i start lifting heavier, how am i meant to cushion the weight?

oh and i am going to work a LOT on my flexilibity too. with this new program, i'll be training 6 days a week, if i stretch legs before and after both (upper body after training only), this will give me 12 stretching sessions a week

 

[pistachio]

If your struggling with the squats,drop the weights bro and work on the technique first.Grab someone at the gym who knows how to squat and get them to check your form.
A good alternative is if your gym has a hack squat machine try facing the machine and doing reverse hack squats,make sure you stick you a ss out and you will be able to go down very low and it isolates the thighs for a great pump.

thanks for the feedback mate, but the point of this thread is that i want to be able to squat properly (ie without using a machine). front squats allow me to get the required depth, i just need to REALLY strengthen up my core first! (and find some way to cushion the weight )

 

[NPR]

It should be resting on your delts and almost on your throat. I cant explain it, it needs to be shown.

google some images.

 

[NPR]

 

[NPR]

Note the top and bottom pics the women keep a straight back and their chests are pushed right out.

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT

As the weight will try to drag your upper body forward you need to fight to keep your chest out and not allow your back to round. This will really test your core.

 

[pistachio]

Note the top and bottom pics the women keep a straight back and their chests are pushed right out.

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT

As the weight will try to drag your upper body forward you need to fight to keep your chest out and not allow your back to round. This will really test your core.

thanks for those pics, i'll have to see where i am resting the bar when i do it next. so no cushioning then, just harden the **** up?

it certainly does test your core! one thing i noticed in those pics however, is how far forward the knees are (well past the toes). what are you thoughts on this? IMO, this looks far too far forward. i try to keep my knees behind my toes, which is aided by doing front squats as i naturally fall back and the weight pulls me forward...

 

[brendon]

well i wouldnt say her form is wrong. a lot of olympic lifters do this. i think it may be to do with the lifting shoes they wear.

 

[Bluey]

having seen Nick squat with my own eyes, id say he knows what he's talking about.

 

[PTC]

30 rep front squats is bordering on the moronic, nobody, and I mean nobody, is allowed to do more than 5 reps.

If you want high reps, do back squats. Use the tools for their intended purpose. Ask yourself why would ANYONE ever front squat. How did it come about. Was it done by bodubuilders, or Olympic lifters coming out of a clean. Now ask how many reps they did.

This is stupidity personified. You have a sore back, no ****, 30 rep front squats, do you train in an asylum?

I mentioned somewhere that I teach my lifters that cant back squat to squat with a front squat....DOING TRIPLES.

Why does everybody do these idiotic routines? Google 1940 and find a program from then, before everyone used up all the crack.

 

[Fadi]

30 rep front squats is bordering on the moronic, nobody, and I mean nobody, is allowed to do more than 5 reps.

If you want high reps, do back squats. Use the tools for their intended purpose. Ask yourself why would ANYONE ever front squat. How did it come about. Was it done by bodubuilders, or Olympic lifters coming out of a clean. Now ask how many reps they did.

This is stupidity personified. You have a sore back, no ****, 30 rep front squats, do you train in an asylum?

I mentioned somewhere that I teach my lifters that cant back squat to squat with a front squat....DOING TRIPLES.

Why does everybody do these idiotic routines? Google 1940 and find a program from then, before everyone used up all the crack.

Markos, does everything you disagree with have to be moronic? Other coaches like you thought the great Ivan Abadzhiev was mad when he began to train twice a day back in 1953. Now that in your language would be "moronic".

The great man thought anything to do with conditioning work was moronic. It seems that moronic is a relative term coaches use to rubbish something they disagree with.

Fadi.

 

[pistachio]

30 rep front squats is bordering on the moronic, nobody, and I mean nobody, is allowed to do more than 5 reps.

If you want high reps, do back squats. Use the tools for their intended purpose. Ask yourself why would ANYONE ever front squat. How did it come about. Was it done by bodubuilders, or Olympic lifters coming out of a clean. Now ask how many reps they did.

This is stupidity personified. You have a sore back, no ****, 30 rep front squats, do you train in an asylum?

I mentioned somewhere that I teach my lifters that cant back squat to squat with a front squat....DOING TRIPLES.

Why does everybody do these idiotic routines? Google 1940 and find a program from then, before everyone used up all the crack.

markos, the purpose of the program i am doing is not to gain size and i am not expecting to. the reason i am choosing to do front squats in a program with high reps is to drill the form in, so that in the future when i go back to sub 10 rep sets, i will be doing it with proper form without falling over or folding.

for me, doing three rep heavy sets of squats with poor form seems to be stupidity personified

 

[NPR]

Greasing the groove is not needed for front squats. The reason your doing them is to build core strength, not grease the groove for back squats. I would be doing 5's if I was you.

 

[PTC]

How about ASKING me why its moronic.

The strain that will put on your wrists and elbows is immense, unecessary and dangerous. It is also moronic.

How about, oh, I dont know, 10 sets of 3, sooooooooooooooooooooooo much better and smarter.

Some priciples on here are similar to using a spanner to bang in a nail, wrong tool for the job.

You guys get so defensive when someone posts up that maybe doing something the way your doing it is wrong.

Fadi, that coach had great results with his methods, acknowledged by all as a master.

Send him an email and tell him you have a guy doing 30 rep front squats, post back what he says.

Pistachio, your post indicates your all over this training thing like black on Shaq, I'll leave you alone from now on.

good luck

 

[Fadi]

Thanks for your input and for your point of view.


Fadi.

 

[pistachio]

How about ASKING me why its moronic.
The strain that will put on your wrists and elbows is immense, unecessary and dangerous. It is also moronic.
How about, oh, I dont know, 10 sets of 3, sooooooooooooooooooooooo much better and smarter.
Some priciples on here are similar to using a spanner to bang in a nail, wrong tool for the job.
You guys get so defensive when someone posts up that maybe doing something the way your doing it is wrong.
Fadi, that coach had great results with his methods, acknowledged by all as a master.
Send him an email and tell him you have a guy doing 30 rep front squats, post back what he says.
Pistachio, your post indicates your all over this training thing like black on Shaq, I'll leave you alone from now on.
good luck

markos, i do appreciate your input, that is when it is actually constructive input and not just a 'what you are doing is stupid' post.

i am not getting defensive about this at all. all i was saying in my post is that me trying to squat heavy when i can't even do a light squat with proper form seems to be asking for an injury. i am going to be spending a lot of time over the next six weeks working on flexibility and form so i CAN start lifting heavy after.

some of the programs you have put up i would be interested in trying in the future. however, i have already decided on Fadi's program and i am going to stick with it. it is only a six week program, what have i got to lose? also, my fitness is not what it should be and what harm could it do me to spend six weeks working on my fitness and muscular endurance? (something i have never done).

i have not changed in the last 3 years markos, and i am going about changing that. however, i think i can wait another 6 weeks before starting a really full on program (like some of the ones you have posted). if i improve my flexibility and fitness in this six weeks so i can do for example, a 20 rep set of breathing squats without dieing in the first 5 reps, don't you think this would be a good outcome?

if i had a strength coach at my side, maybe i could go straight into a hardcore program. unfortunately, i do not have that luxury, so i am easing back into my training and working on issues i have at the moment such as flexibility and form.

do you think this sounds like a good idea? i am genuinely interested in your opinion on this

cheers

 

[Kyle Aaron]

I say, choose one person and listen to them. Listening to several gets too confusing, you could put two national Olympic weightlifting team coaches together in a room to discuss "what is the best routine for beginners?" and they'd probably brawl within five minutes. Yet both get results.

I have my preferences as to who to listen to, but who that is doesn't matter now - this isn't a popularity poll. What I say is, setting aside any programmes that are obviously crazy, like squats with a barbell on a fitball,

1. Choose a programme that seems good to you
2. Stick to it for one month
3. ask yourself: "Is it causing me injury?"
4. ask yourself: "Is it giving me the results I want?"
5. if the answers to those questions are "no" and "yes", then stick with it for another month. Otherwise, go back to #1

Absolutely you should talk to lots of different people to learn and get advice and ideas. But don't let yourself be turned into a ping pong ball bouncing back and forth between different coaches and their preferred workouts.

The number one reason people fail to get the results they want from gym work is that they don't stick to anything long enough.

Consistent effort over time gets results. Even if that consistent effort is imperfect in some way. The best workout is the one you stick to.

 

[Christian]

Speaking to a trainer mate the other day. Basically if you form is that good for front squats then you wont be able to get more then 5 out as it is so far pushed up against your throat it gets hard to breath!

Not to mention wrist pain!!

 

[Josh_GTiR]

That is the thing that I think of, wrist pain!!!!