Functional strength through lifting

[PTC]

I'm new to this forum and the forum appears to be quite young. I've just gone through a few journals to check out what you guys are lifting and the exercises you do.

I know this is a bodybuilding forum, so if your aim is too look good rather than get strong, this thread is not for you, but I still respect your goals.

i have a son thats just turned 17, he has less than 2 years total lifting, 1 year of serious lifting.

He weighs between 67-70kg, depending on his sporting commitments. He plays soccer and basketball. He lifts purely to be a better athlete, the fact he is ripped is a bonus.

His current best lifts are

Squat 145kg
Bench squat 165kg
Squat 100kg x 20 ( 150% of bodyweight)
Deadlift 170kg
Bench press 82.5kg
Powerclean 102.5kg
Clean & jerk 95kg
Front squat 110kg

100m time 11.67
20m time 2.69

The exercises you see listed above form the basis of his training, along with shrugs, hang cleans, overhead squats, military press, push press, chins, Bulgarian split squats, Ukraininan deadlifts, Romanian deadlifts.

He lifts any time he can, sometimes 3 times a day. He lifts everyday except Sunday.

He drinks 3-4 litres of milk per day.

Before he started lifting he was an absolute runt. He started playing senior soccer last season at 15yo. His confidence has really grown with the added strength.

If added strength or benefits to sport are your interests, doing these same lifts are the way to go.

If any of you have any questions regarding functional strength, post here.

Cheers

Markos

ps...all lifts done in perfect form with no belt or any assistance gear...ever.

 

[katie]

Markos, quick question for you. What do you think about crossfit? I notice you focus on functional strength but at crossfit they like to master 10 disciplines:

cardiovascular/respiratory endurance
stamina
strength
flexibility
power
speed
agility
balance
coordination
accuracy

Cheers

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Hoo, this should be good

Markos, you should know that despite your disdain for qualified PTs, I'm doing a course now... and you have influenced me to stick with all those basics, whatever other stuff I'm told. For example, bench press, squats etc are described by my manual as "advanced" or "very advanced" exercises. Compared to machines they are, but...

I fully agree that basic compound and heavy lifts, lots of good food, these are the basis of functional strength, and part of good health.

All I disagree with is,

if your aim is too look good rather than get strong, this thread is not for you

As you get strong you will - as you say, if your diet is right - grow muscle and lose fat, and for most people this is looking good.

Obviously a professional bodybuilder is something different again. But for most people, building up to something like benching around 1x their bodyweight, squatting x1.5, deadlifting x2 - as they build up to and maintain that, they're going to look better, too. I'm sure you'll agree, I just wanted to emphasise it.

 

[katie]

Hoo, this should be good

Yes, I'm genuinely interested in hearing Markos' response. Not deliberately trying to start one of those never-ending debates, but just trying to reconcile Crossfit's ideas with Markos'. Correct me if I'm wrong, but at Markos' gym they lift heavy, with strict (if not perfect) form.

Wherease Crossfit seems to let form go out the window (witness the kipping pull-ups), however they reckon they get more work done, or power output...

Just confused, because I've read a few blogs where powerlifters have switched to crossfit, and vice versa. Seems there is no correct answer to this one (as with all thorny problems?!)

 

[katie]

Another quick question for Markos re: functional strength and its application to sport. I play basketball and I have a measly vertical jump (and I'm already a short-ish girl so imagine trying to defend against 6 foot guys!!) I think you've mentioned in your newsletter that lifting heavy weights is great for bball. How come if you can lift heavy, eg. squat your own bodyweight, why does that transfer to vertical jump? They seem like fairly different activities. If anything, I thought plyometric exercises would be more beneficial to improving vertical jump.

The other sport I do a lot of is rockclimbing, I wonder if Markos has any people at his gym who do that?

I think that's enough questions for 1 afternoon, I'll come back tomorrow and see what controversy i've stirred up re: crossfit

 

[PTC]

Katie, I have only ever had one Cross Fit trainer lift at PTC, Ben. He is a certified trainer and really nice guy.

He has the lowest Wilks score of any male lifter at a PTC comp.

There are plenty of benefits to Cross Fit, getting strong and having functional strengths is not one of them.

He is very fit, but displays poor form at chins and other bodyweight exercises.

He has been shown up at PTC, and is now on a quest to actually get strong.

Understand this does not apply to EVERY CF lifter. I am only talking about MY experiences with them. Like I mentioned, Ben is a certified instructor who went to the USA to train and learn. I'm not a big fan.

Aaron, those standards are okay, but you should be doing them within 6 months of lifting. The double bodyweight deadlift for instance. I dont have any male lifter not capable of doing that at PTC.

We do 1.5x bodyweight squats at PTC at my comps. Record in 60sec is 16 by Max.
Bodyweight bench in 60sec is 27 by Shorty.

Both Shorty and Max couldve gone on, thats why I have a time limit.

They are nice goals to aim for in your first 6 months.

I dont hate all PT's as I havent met all PT's. I do believe the time spent learning is farcical. Its just a grab for dollars.

James, who reads this forum, owns a studio in Caulfield, and he trains at PTC. He hired 2 lifters from PTC to work as trainers. Thats how highly he rates PTC and dislikes the current PT's coming out of the academy.

I purposely left diet out of the equation because believe it or not, you can make strength gains with a poor diet. Obviously you will look better if you eat right.

 

[PTC]

Katie, as you know, I coach basketball, and have for 11 years. My 2 sons have recorded the highest vertical leaps at Mt Eliza secondary college.

Powercleans
Deadlifts
Squats
Box jumps
Snatch grip deadlifts off blocks

These are the main exercises for a big vert. Your jumping ability comes from glutes and hammies, followed by quads, delts and finally calves.

Mick is a rock climber, he is the one performing a 47" box jump at the top of one of my newsletters, # 67 I think.

Vertical leap is very important in all sports. We do plenty of bounding and box jumps, hurdle bounds etc.

 

[fitnation]

Have any of you read Power to the People, this is very much along these lines of training basic moves like deadlifts etc. If I can get an olympic barbell set for around $300 I am going to train this way at home with my kettlebells. Crossfit is good but you do need to modify it for your own needs. It is not really structured and has a lot of obscure exercises in it. I don't agree with the kipping pullup either I think it is bullshit.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Yes, I was thinking of those standards as good starting ones for the first year of training, and a level which most people would be happy with if they could maintain it for years. And let's face it, it's a level higher than three-quarters of the general population at least...

I can't defend or attack the time spent learning until I've completed it. At the TAFE where I am, if it's a moneygrab they must be really poor to think of the $500 or so for the semester as big money. At some private places charging $5,000 for four weeks, obviously that's different.

About crossfit, I think what it really answers is people's desire for "something different." Many people don't have the persistence of Shorty, mainly benching, deadlifting and squatting, day in day out for a couple of years straight. If they have to do the same thing twice they get all upset and think about what's on telly instead. Of course the answer to that is to push them harder

Edit: Markos answered about jumps at the same time as me

 

[katie]

Katie, as you know, I coach basketball, and have for 11 years. My 2 sons have recorded the highest vertical leaps at Mt Eliza secondary college.

Powercleans
Deadlifts
Squats
Box jumps
Snatch grip deadlifts off blocks

These are the main exercises for a big vert. Your jumping ability comes from glutes and hammies, followed by quads, delts and finally calves.

Mick is a rock climber, he is the one performing a 47" box jump at the top of one of my newsletters, # 67 I think.

Vertical leap is very important in all sports. We do plenty of bounding and box jumps, hurdle bounds etc.

Cool, you have climbers training with you. I went back and looked at newsletter #67! Awesome box jump.

Thanks for the info re: vertical jump. I'll incorporate some of those lifts into my routine. I visit melbourne once a year so one of these days I might swing by Frankston - sounds like a great environment to train in.

 

[PTC]

Fitnation, in regards to a $300 Olympic barbell set, dont bother. Those Chinese bars bend and break. Save your money and buy quality. Before PTC was a business, it was our home gym, yet I still bought 3 x $450 ABC barbells and bumper plates that cost $16kg. A pair of 20kg bumpers cost me $640.

The stuff I got will last a lifetime. Pay once for everything if you can.

 

[PTC]

Kyle, maintaining is how we get fat and weak.

Its called PROGRESSIVE RESISTANCE TRAINING for a reason.

They are good 6 month goals, after 6 months, set new goals. When you stop progressing, you begin regressing.

 

[poopoohead]

PTC
Heya Bro, Im 33yrs old
I have trouble with my legs where I can some times get weak and sore in my knees so I tend not to do em too much, but they deffinatly have the potental to be monsters,
I usually do 3 sets 5 reps of 100's then just repeating that formula untill I reach 130 or more depending how I feel.
Wots the best way to build monster strength faster.

Cheers Mike

 

[PTC]

Max squats pretty much every day, and he could do double bodyweight from when he was 15 years old.

the body is an adaptive organism. Bulgarian weightlifters squat 15 times a week. Your body will adapt.

Bodybuilding folklore tells us to rest a muscle 48-72 hours. The Bulgarians squat 3 times a day. Who's right? America havent won a medal at weightlifting for 25 years +.

Weightlifters from Europe totally disregard conventional lifting values from the USA.

I dont pay much attention to them either.

Vary your reps, 20 reppers are awesome, 15 singles next session, front squats for triples, box squats to a low box (29cm) to a high box (33cm) or a bench (40cm)

dont allow your body to adapt, change the stimulus repeatedly.

Hope this helps

 

[CaT_SPeW]

i often want to train on my days off but dont because they are my "rest" days. if i were to train once or twice a week on these "rest" days should i split the time over multiple push-pull movements like my regular workout or would it be better to concentrate on just 1 heavy movement like squats or deads for the duration of the session?

 

[fitnation]

I'm not knocking Crossfit as I have found some of it good. Is the Crossfit Journal worth signing up for? I would give it more time if the exercises were more clearly layed out for me either on dvd or on a more specific website. The current sites give you some insight.

 

[PTC]

Look, any exercise program is beneficial in some way, I just like bang for my buck, and what I've seen of CF with my own eyes, little bang.

I'll speak to you on Friday David in regards to the training you do at home

 

[poopoohead]

PTC
Thanks for the reply Im gonna start a new prog for an every gym session squat.
Im gonna start it on a friday so my legs will have time to recover over the weekend, I know once I get thro the first hit of DOMS I shod be fine to hit em every day.

Also I wouldnd mind getting to know more bout doing some real trainning in order to possibly compete again someday.
I used to do small gym events in NZ and didnt do too bad on my three core lifts, becos the events where only small and run in an amature fashion I didnt really learn alot about proper tech etc. Was just a bit of fun.
I was going to pack that in while I try to set up a life over here in oz but really miss the sport.
Plus I keep thinking Im too old. I wouldnt mind finding an actuall lifting club or group to be a part of.
Thanks again

 

[PTC]

Poo, I run comps at PTC 3 times a year. Around 10 interstaters fly in for each comp, including quite a few from QLD.

The comps are 5 lifts - squat - bench press - powerclean - overhead press - deadlift. I also do Strongman events. The last 5 lift comp was in fact won by a Queenslander, Tony.

He squatted 190kg to a 29cm high box, benched 150kg, cleaned 107.5kg, push pressed 100 overhead and deadlifted a PTC record of 265kg.

I started these comps to get my clients motivated. At the first comp I had 7 lifters. For Bash at the Beach 3, I already have around 30 lifters paid up and entered to compete.

They absolutely love it. The lifts are done raw, not even a belt is allowed. BATB3 is on September 19.

If you are interested in flying down and competing, I can hook you up with the QLD mob.

If you go to my website you can see results and pics from previous comps.

Actually, I may start a new thread inviting forum members to compete.

 

[katie]

Katie, as you know, I coach basketball, and have for 11 years. My 2 sons have recorded the highest vertical leaps at Mt Eliza secondary college.

Powercleans
Deadlifts
Squats
Box jumps
Snatch grip deadlifts off blocks

These are the main exercises for a big vert. Your jumping ability comes from glutes and hammies, followed by quads, delts and finally calves.

Mick is a rock climber, he is the one performing a 47" box jump at the top of one of my newsletters, # 67 I think.

Vertical leap is very important in all sports. We do plenty of bounding and box jumps, hurdle bounds etc.

We lost at bball by 1 point today, more determined than ever to get my vertical jump up.

So it looks like I need to do the above exercises in addition to

Military press
Bench press
Chin ups

for general strength.

Markos - would following Stronglifts 5x5 program be suitable (with a few modifications to include power cleans, etc) or do you have any other suggestions?