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First cycle, 400mg Test E

Achilles said:
Would 600 cals over maintenance be a reasonable number? I'm aiming for 1.5g/lb bodyweight protein, and around 100g fat with the rest coming from carbs. Whole foods will make up the vast majority of calorie intake with some protein coming from WPI.

As for the 400mg/wk decision; I'm looking at Nordicor or UGLOZ Test E, both of which are 250mg/ml in a 10ml vial. 2 vials (5000mg)/12 weeks = 400mg/week. I've read a lot of "first cycle" posts, and 400-500mg seem to be the most common suggestions. Apparently there is not much of a difference between 400 and 500mg. If there is, however, I'd pick up a third vial and go for 500mg/week. What are your thoughts on this?

Cheers
Click to expand...

600 cals over wont be a problem. I have seen people have good results on 500mg pw for there first cycle without any sides.
So it really up to you if you wanted to do this.
If so that would be 1ml twice a week. An easy measure.

1-12 test e 500 pw
1-16 .25mg adex E3D
14-18 pct nolvadex 20/20/20/10/10

The adex tabs come in 1mg. You can split these into 4 (.25mg)
All the vitamins you are taking seem rather complex to manage.
Maybe consider a quality multivitamin and liver detox tabs.
Hope this helps.
 
BrisVegasGhost said:
600 cals over wont be a problem. I have seen people have good results on 500mg pw for there first cycle without any sides.
So it really up to you if you wanted to do this.
If so that would be 1ml twice a week. An easy measure.

1-12 test e 500 pw
1-16 .25mg adex E3D
14-18 pct nolvadex 20/20/20/10/10

The adex tabs come in 1mg. You can split these into 4 (.25mg)
All the vitamins you are taking seem rather complex to manage.
Maybe consider a quality multivitamin and liver detox tabs.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Why do you suggest Adex over Aromasin and Nolva over Torem? I was planning to stock up on Nolva anyway in case Torem isn't enough (Nolva is relatively cheap), but from what I gather they're relatively similar - Torem working through the same mechanism with fewer sides.

As far as the supps; you're right, it's a lot. I'm looking at N2Guard on cycle support in the place of a fair few of those supps. I'm also already planning on Orange Triad as a multivit. I'll be keeping the UDCA for liver protection, and Liv52 is only a few dollars so I'll probably grab some of that too. Any idea as to the hepatotoxicity of Aromasin? I know Nolva/Torem are hepatotoxic.

Cheers
 
Achilles said:
Why do you suggest Adex over Aromasin and Nolva over Torem? I was planning to stock up on Nolva anyway in case Torem isn't enough (Nolva is relatively cheap), but from what I gather they're relatively similar - Torem working through the same mechanism with fewer sides.

As far as the supps; you're right, it's a lot. I'm looking at N2Guard on cycle support in the place of a fair few of those supps. I'm also already planning on Orange Triad as a multivit. I'll be keeping the UDCA for liver protection, and Liv52 is only a few dollars so I'll probably grab some of that too. Any idea as to the hepatotoxicity of Aromasin? I know Nolva/Torem are hepatotoxic.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Some people use adex some Aromasin. Some people tend to find one can work better then the other. Same as Nolva... again some individuals swear on clomid for pct.
There is a plethora of information and debates on what to use. Best of all is to be prepared.
Cheers
 
Nolva will prevent the estrogens from binding to estrogen receptors by binding to them itself
Adex stops you from producing estrogen in the first place
 
Wow there is some crap in this thread, bit of a shame considering the OP seems to know what he is doing and the people giving the advice dont..

And to really cause a shit storm, testosterone is NOT a drug, it is a bio identical hormone that is supported in an oil base which is injectable. Other anabolic steroids MAY be considered drugs but testosterone is NOT a drug, the media and sport governing bodies like the throw around the term "performance enhancing DRUGS" and consider testosterone to be one because it is performance enhancing but the fact is if that hormones are NOT drugs. Some of the support used for the cycle however are drugs and probably cause more of the problems in the long term.

Out of curiosity Spartacus, do you drink alcohol? even occasionally? Do you take medications when you are sick? Testosterone when cycled safely with safe well sourced gear is less harmful for the body then even one weekend on the piss is.

Really annoys me seeing narrow minded people telling others how to live their life, unless you are completely 100% straight edge then IMO you should keep your opinions on this sort of stuff to yourself.
 
I agree with the conclusion of what you're saying but your premise that testosterone isn't a drug is outrageous lol
 
yes, half a bottle of wine, once a week. Sometimes I have a few more drinks, rarely.

And testosterone, taken as a pill or injection, is a drug. That is why it shuts down your own testosterone.

In sports with testing, taking it is a form of cheating.

I am sorry if my do-gooder opinion offended you; merely suggested that he should take it in moderation (if at all).

I merely upheld my right to express an opinion.
 
Last edited:
NJA82 said:
Wow there is some crap in this thread, bit of a shame considering the OP seems to know what he is doing and the people giving the advice dont..

And to really cause a shit storm, testosterone is NOT a drug, it is a bio identical hormone that is supported in an oil base which is injectable. Other anabolic steroids MAY be considered drugs but testosterone is NOT a drug, the media and sport governing bodies like the throw around the term "performance enhancing DRUGS" and consider testosterone to be one because it is performance enhancing but the fact is if that hormones are NOT drugs. Some of the support used for the cycle however are drugs and probably cause more of the problems in the long term.

.........
Click to expand...
You do realise that AAS including testosterone for performance enhancement is synthesised.
 
I'm starting to think that (short of alcoholism) that drinking is good for you
Humans, primates before us and shrews (which we evolved from) all drink copious amounts of alcohol and it's no coincidence that alcohol has been a big part of culture since the start of forever

Few beers after training will most likely help with recovery.
 
Drug or no drug, it does this

'When artificial testosterone is introduced into the body, the pituitary gland in the brain senses its presence and shuts off the supply of hormones that stimulate the testicles to make their own testosterone and sperm. The brain cannot differentiate natural testosterone from synthetic, so it shuts down its own sperm-making mechanisms'.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/20/health/menshealth/20alexander.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Why take it if you don't need it. Ok, some may want to lift more weight; maybe some want to look good and pick up chicks (or guys); or maybe some need it because their gonads dont work well enough.

I am lucky; look good (my opinion), still can do the deed regularly; and don't need drugs to give me that extra 15% in weight in the bench press and other lifts.

You could be right though. I am near 52, and my best days are behind me. Maybe I should be more tolerant of others who don't share my good fortune (I now have a sound body and sound mind).
 
Last edited:
spartacus said:
Drug or no drug, it does this

'When artificial testosterone is introduced into the body, the pituitary gland in the brain senses its presence and shuts off the supply of hormones that stimulate the testicles to make their own testosterone and sperm. The brain cannot differentiate natural testosterone from synthetic, so it shuts down its own sperm-making mechanisms'.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/20/health/menshealth/20alexander.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Why take it if you don't need it. Ok, some may want to lift more weight; maybe some want to look good and pick up chicks (or guys); or maybe some need it because their gonads dont work well enough.

I am lucky; look good (my opinion), still can do the deed regularly; and don't need drugs to give me that extra 15% in weight in the bench press and other lifts.

You could be right though. I am near 52, and my best days are behind me. Maybe I should be more tolerant of others who don't share my good fortune (I now have a sound body and sound mind).
Click to expand...

IMO it's about being your 'best self'. That's how i see it. Sure, I could look decent without roiding, but i'll always pale in comparison to the version of myself that juices. One life and I want to live it (even if artificially) as a better version than myself when in the natural state.
 
^^ Although I have never cycled anything in my life i can understand that logic, Elliot Hulse does a good video about morality and steroid use and sums it up well, If that is the person you are comfortable becoming and being than good luck with it but for some people its not for them and they dont feel comfortable being that type of lifter/person.
 
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