i'm not changing any topic, i'm still on topic and have posted since i made the comment to you about your true colors.
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Test supplements??
- Thread starter Hsvguy23
- Start date
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- supplements test
Stewstews
Small Fry
Perhaps getting off topic (OP my favourite "test" supplement is DAA. I use TestForce 2), but...
What do you think on his comments re: bioavailability? That to me is the biggest question mark over any res product. Also noting that there are heaps of Res products - mostly aimed at the life extension market though?
Not sure if PA still sells one, but he had a dermal delivery solution for it?
Yep Patrick still sells his 30mg spray.
The bioavailability Patrick put it to rest slightly with the comment he made regarding a spike in blood levels "a spike can work. remember, it works by influencing gene transcription. once it initiates that process the process proceeds whether the compound is still circulating or not"
We enhanced our res100 with bio piperine which has shown in a study to increase the absorption by 229% and the maximum serum concentration by 1544% You can read the study here: Enhancing the bioavailability of resveratr... [Mol Nutr Food Res. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI
Mate just pointing out the facts. Nothing wrong with that. Is there??
Big Mick
"2014 - Kunce of the year"
Well I used the BN test booster
I have now ordered the new Bulk Nutrients Test Booster MAX, will give it a run, it's $39 for a months supply, so cheap enough and it's a complete stand alone product.
For those that will scream save you $39, I can afford it, and I have saved plenty of money from a healthy lifestyle considering I used to spend $200 per week on alcohol before getting back into pumping iron
Will report about it in my new 2013 work out dairy starting soon
I have now ordered the new Bulk Nutrients Test Booster MAX, will give it a run, it's $39 for a months supply, so cheap enough and it's a complete stand alone product.
For those that will scream save you $39, I can afford it, and I have saved plenty of money from a healthy lifestyle considering I used to spend $200 per week on alcohol before getting back into pumping iron
Will report about it in my new 2013 work out dairy starting soon
I have not seen any reviews on Bulk Nutrients Test Booster MAX yet nor can i find any on the internet I wouldn't mind seeing some reviews and blood tests.
The concerns i have with this product is like i said banging a whole bunch of ingredients together that are all known to reduce estrogen. As said before estrogen is an important part to testosterone creation and libido, you do not want to much but you certainly do not want too little.
One ingredient which caught my eye was 600mg of fenugreek this on its own with ingredients that do not effect estrogen is actually a pretty good supplement.
But we have now seen in 5 different people a reduction in drive, testosterone and libido when it was combined with Res100.....basically it is an overkill when combined with it on estrogen levels, the end result was 5 people all with lowered libido. The up side was all 5 had good libido when on fenugreek on its own or res100 on its own. This showed there certainly was a problem with estrogen overkill when combined.
The fact that this product has Dim [FONT="](Diindolylmethane),[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]Stinging Nettle Root[/FONT][FONT="] and [/FONT][FONT="]Fenugreek[/FONT] all known anti estrogen ingredients leads me to believe you may not find many reviews on this product if ever and it might be pulled from the line in the future.
However the other ingredients may offset this over kill on estrogen levels, considering they effect other areas of testosterone creation such as increased LH, cholesterol transport, reduced cortisol and SHBG. Also DAA of course can increase estrogen which may help balance out all these ingredients trying to lower estrogen.
It's one thing to read studies on ingredients that increase testosterone and it's another thing to start combining all of these ingredients into an all in 1 product, it may do more harm than good.
I am however willing to wait for reviews and blood tests and like i said am open minded to other ingredients offsetting the estrogen reducing effects.
The concerns i have with this product is like i said banging a whole bunch of ingredients together that are all known to reduce estrogen. As said before estrogen is an important part to testosterone creation and libido, you do not want to much but you certainly do not want too little.
One ingredient which caught my eye was 600mg of fenugreek this on its own with ingredients that do not effect estrogen is actually a pretty good supplement.
But we have now seen in 5 different people a reduction in drive, testosterone and libido when it was combined with Res100.....basically it is an overkill when combined with it on estrogen levels, the end result was 5 people all with lowered libido. The up side was all 5 had good libido when on fenugreek on its own or res100 on its own. This showed there certainly was a problem with estrogen overkill when combined.
The fact that this product has Dim [FONT="](Diindolylmethane),[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]Stinging Nettle Root[/FONT][FONT="] and [/FONT][FONT="]Fenugreek[/FONT] all known anti estrogen ingredients leads me to believe you may not find many reviews on this product if ever and it might be pulled from the line in the future.
However the other ingredients may offset this over kill on estrogen levels, considering they effect other areas of testosterone creation such as increased LH, cholesterol transport, reduced cortisol and SHBG. Also DAA of course can increase estrogen which may help balance out all these ingredients trying to lower estrogen.
It's one thing to read studies on ingredients that increase testosterone and it's another thing to start combining all of these ingredients into an all in 1 product, it may do more harm than good.
I am however willing to wait for reviews and blood tests and like i said am open minded to other ingredients offsetting the estrogen reducing effects.
Big Mick
"2014 - Kunce of the year"
Well the reason there are no reviews is because the product is brand new and has only just been released for sale.
So it might be a while before reviews become available, may be I am one of the first people to try it.
May be in 2 or three month time I will have a review, but then again I did not have a blood test done for a while.
See how it goes, I have three months worth of the stuff now, and will be using it religiously along with training and diet starting January 1 2013
So it might be a while before reviews become available, may be I am one of the first people to try it.
May be in 2 or three month time I will have a review, but then again I did not have a blood test done for a while.
See how it goes, I have three months worth of the stuff now, and will be using it religiously along with training and diet starting January 1 2013
KungFooGoo
Gangster
Well the reason there are no reviews is because the product is brand new and has only just been released for sale.
So it might be a while before reviews become available, may be I am one of the first people to try it.
May be in 2 or three month time I will have a review, but then again I did not have a blood test done for a while.
See how it goes, I have three months worth of the stuff now, and will be using it religiously along with training and diet starting January 1 2013
start now, why wait till jan?
Well the reason there are no reviews is because the product is brand new and has only just been released for sale.
So it might be a while before reviews become available, may be I am one of the first people to try it.
May be in 2 or three month time I will have a review, but then again I did not have a blood test done for a while.
See how it goes, I have three months worth of the stuff now, and will be using it religiously along with training and diet starting January 1 2013
Actually it has been selling since the 26th of November
Our new res100 was released on the 24th of Novemeber and since this date we have received many reviews via forums and email and phone its working that well people are phoning us...lol
Lastly it looks as though this is simply a case of find some studies all shown to increase testosterone and then bang all of those ingredients into an all in 1 product at the maximum dosages used in the studies, without much thought put into interactions, ingredients working together or compounding effects of ingredients acting on the same aspect of testosterone creation like reducing estrogen.
Hence like showed above fenugreek combined with res100 resulted in lowered libido in 5 people. So having a supplement with 3 ingredients that all do the same thing reduce estrogen is not going to be of much benefit it will be an over kill on estrogen.
You'd think someone like myself owning a store would want to sell someone fenugreek supplements in combination with res100, but i do take pride in my business and have advised against this thus losing a sale for a product that we could have made more money on, my goal isn't to sell you what you "think" you want it is to sell you what works best.
Big Mick
"2014 - Kunce of the year"
I have no idea how much of this stuff they have sold, may be very little.
Yes I believe the idea of the BN Quality Guarantee range of products is exactly that, combine the ingredients clinically proven in independent studies in the quantities used in the studies.
For the price I am happy to give it a try, if it does nothing I have lost little IMO, and if it works just as good as their original Test Boost Combination along with D Aspartic acid and DIM I will be stoked, as it made me feel great and with my blood tests showed an increase in test levels when I was using it.
Yes I believe the idea of the BN Quality Guarantee range of products is exactly that, combine the ingredients clinically proven in independent studies in the quantities used in the studies.
For the price I am happy to give it a try, if it does nothing I have lost little IMO, and if it works just as good as their original Test Boost Combination along with D Aspartic acid and DIM I will be stoked, as it made me feel great and with my blood tests showed an increase in test levels when I was using it.
What kind of increase are we talking?
Big Mick
"2014 - Kunce of the year"
Have a read here, outlines the entire process.
http://ausbb.com/bodybuilding-supplements/16003-test-booster-trial-anyone-interested.html
Here is a quote from the original study I tool part in:
I have been slack in updating this, but have finally decided to dig up the old thread.
I completed the three month course of supplements as described, I had blood tests done prior to starting any supplementation.
The results were not great Test was 8.7nmol/l (9.5-28 is normal range)
During the three months I noted my recovery seemed to improve, and my strength gains were good, (will add my gains a bit later to this post).
Retesting was done three months later
Results were 10.7nmol/l (9.5-28 is normal range), an improvement of 2.0nmol/l, not sure how good that is but it's heading the right way putting me back into the normal range.
My training did not really change and my diet remained constant.
Read into it what you will
And another quote:
Today is day 9 of me taking all the test boost supplements as prescribed.
Since then my squat has gone from 127.8kg to a new PB of 141.48kg (reaching and surpassing my goal of 140kg
My dead lift has gone from 153.4kg to 162.2kg, adding 8.8kg over the same time frame.
And today was the first time I benched over 100kg since my chest strain in early August, again it felt light and I recon I could have nailed a new PB in the bench, but had no spotter and again did not want to risk injury, so was happy just to get over 100kg.
Placebo???? Coincidence???? Would I have done the same without the supplements???? Could they work this quick???? Who knows??? But one thing is for sure I am feeling on top of the world at the moment, and that's all that matters.....
I remember feeling on top of the world when taking these supplements, and if the Test Booster Max is anything like the old formula (in theory it should be better) I will be using it for quite some time.
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Stewstews
Small Fry
I have the original BN Test Booster Combination (OP - note that this has Trib in it), and combine it with BN DIM and ON RES and TestForce 2 DAA. Similar to your combination Big Mick but with RES added. Perhaps I can comment a little?
I have stopped taking the DIM ongoing, or only take it in small cycles with a long rest period. Everything was going REALLY well with this combination, and BAM zero libido, which was actually very scary as the combination had done the exact opposite to that point. Never experienced that in my life. Dropped the DIM and perhaps a week later I was ok again.
If nothing else that meant that the DIM was doing its job.
If the Fenugreek in the Test Booster Combination is having a similar effect to the DIM as ON mentions, I might experiment next time and keep DIM going and take the Test Booster Combination in small cycles, and see if the effect is the same? There seem to be more "Estrogen reducers" rather than "Test boosters" in my stack (and available generally?), maybe I was over doing it?
Either way I am intrigued by the Test Booster Max for when the Combination runs out, and have been liaising with BN on the ingredients.
I am a big fan of DAA (without any science to back it up, I started on this before the others, and felt the change). I already take a strong Vit E, so the question I need to *personally* answer is if I can stop taking these supps (the Combination, DIM, Vit E, DAA), and get the effect through BN's Max combo.
Assuming I was overdoing DIM, the Max combo has twice the DIM I get compared to when I take DIM separately. The Max also has more Fenugreek compared to the Combination. I may continue with the Combination + DIM TBH, so I can remove/cycle either if I get the libido effect again.
If someone doesn't take anything though, the Max could be a good starting point? Personally I'd say go with a DAA first and introduce things into a stack 1 by 1.
I have stopped taking the DIM ongoing, or only take it in small cycles with a long rest period. Everything was going REALLY well with this combination, and BAM zero libido, which was actually very scary as the combination had done the exact opposite to that point. Never experienced that in my life. Dropped the DIM and perhaps a week later I was ok again.
If nothing else that meant that the DIM was doing its job.
If the Fenugreek in the Test Booster Combination is having a similar effect to the DIM as ON mentions, I might experiment next time and keep DIM going and take the Test Booster Combination in small cycles, and see if the effect is the same? There seem to be more "Estrogen reducers" rather than "Test boosters" in my stack (and available generally?), maybe I was over doing it?
Either way I am intrigued by the Test Booster Max for when the Combination runs out, and have been liaising with BN on the ingredients.
I am a big fan of DAA (without any science to back it up, I started on this before the others, and felt the change). I already take a strong Vit E, so the question I need to *personally* answer is if I can stop taking these supps (the Combination, DIM, Vit E, DAA), and get the effect through BN's Max combo.
Assuming I was overdoing DIM, the Max combo has twice the DIM I get compared to when I take DIM separately. The Max also has more Fenugreek compared to the Combination. I may continue with the Combination + DIM TBH, so I can remove/cycle either if I get the libido effect again.
If someone doesn't take anything though, the Max could be a good starting point? Personally I'd say go with a DAA first and introduce things into a stack 1 by 1.
@big mick going from 8.7 to 10.7nmol/L is basically unchanged the difference in the level could be because of variables between tests such as food intake and time of blood test.
This is why it is best to test LH/FSH as well as testosterone so you can judge if there really is a difference or not and if there is any problems such as the LH/FSH going up but the test level remaining the same.
@Stewstews This is a perfect example of what not to do, combining so many ingredients all known to reduce estrogen will result in a loss of libido just as you have shown, once you have 1 ingredient in charge of controlling estrogen and getting the balance of estrogen right you should leave it at that there is no need to add more things which all do the same thing. It just ends up over killing estrogen levels.
If you do this again the same thing will happen again you will lose libido as i have said many times before you do not want too little estrogen and you do not want to much estrogen you want a hormonal balance.
If there was a method in this madness i would be selling it trust me i would sell you fenugreek as part of our test booster stack but instead i focused on other areas of testosterone creation that you can positively effect to increase the levels.
If anyone on here knows more about test booster than me i'm happy to talk to them, but i doubt there is this has been a very long obsession of mine and through obsession will come some crazy ideas which end up working perfectly.
You should also be aware that plain vitamin E is not good for your health or your testosterone levels, vitamin E "real' vitamin E is made up of 8 isomers not 1. If you have 1 isomer you have a cheap synthetic byproduct of soybean oil and as said it is not good for your health.
You can read here about the right vitamin E: http://www.cocoscience.com/pdf/the_right_e.pdf
As said if it was needed we would have put it in our stack, its not needed and it's overkill having too many things all reducing estrogen.
This is why it is best to test LH/FSH as well as testosterone so you can judge if there really is a difference or not and if there is any problems such as the LH/FSH going up but the test level remaining the same.
@Stewstews This is a perfect example of what not to do, combining so many ingredients all known to reduce estrogen will result in a loss of libido just as you have shown, once you have 1 ingredient in charge of controlling estrogen and getting the balance of estrogen right you should leave it at that there is no need to add more things which all do the same thing. It just ends up over killing estrogen levels.
If you do this again the same thing will happen again you will lose libido as i have said many times before you do not want too little estrogen and you do not want to much estrogen you want a hormonal balance.
If there was a method in this madness i would be selling it trust me i would sell you fenugreek as part of our test booster stack but instead i focused on other areas of testosterone creation that you can positively effect to increase the levels.
If anyone on here knows more about test booster than me i'm happy to talk to them, but i doubt there is this has been a very long obsession of mine and through obsession will come some crazy ideas which end up working perfectly.
You should also be aware that plain vitamin E is not good for your health or your testosterone levels, vitamin E "real' vitamin E is made up of 8 isomers not 1. If you have 1 isomer you have a cheap synthetic byproduct of soybean oil and as said it is not good for your health.
You can read here about the right vitamin E: http://www.cocoscience.com/pdf/the_right_e.pdf
As said if it was needed we would have put it in our stack, its not needed and it's overkill having too many things all reducing estrogen.
Stewstews
Small Fry
Thanks for your continued input.
I think I'm across the Vit E at least - making sure not soybean oil produced and high in the full mix of tocotrienols (not tocopherols).
another important thing to note is i believe its source must be 100% natural.
For instance myself and the mrs were taking tococaps we both had stronger, faster growing hair and finger nails and the mrs noticed increase shine to both her nails and hair i didn't cause i don't pay enough attention.
Anyway when orange triad came out we figured we still need a multi v and we want all 8 isomers of the vitamin E for the health benefits and we found as soon as we started the orange triad all of these benefits went away.
We then both went back on to the tococaps and the benefits returned again we went off them and back on to the orange triad to once again see all benefits go away.
Since then we have stayed on the tococaps and the benefits once again returned.
I think the problem is orange triad must not be from a natural source or it is too extracted.
Kinda like eating the potassium from a banana and not getting the full benefit by eating the whole banana.
Since tococaps also contain
Naturally Occurring Phyto-nutrients 30mg**
Plant Squalene 22mg**
Mixed Plant Sterols (beta-sitosterol campesterol stigmasterol) 8mg**
Mixed Carotenoids
(A-carotene B-carotene Y-carotene) 200mcg**
Co-Enzyme Q10 10mcg**
Which are all part of the palm fruit extract so you get exactly what is from the palm fruit and nothing less.
Also these amounts listed are the minimum amount found per serve where as depending on the season these amounts can increase by as much as 20-30% in Australia we are not allowed to list averages of maximums so we have to list the minimum amount per serve.
Big Mick
"2014 - Kunce of the year"
Interesting, will definitely be monitoring how I feel and train on the Test Boost Max. Will give it three months and then see, all will be logged in my 2013 work out thread I will be starting soon.
Will see if there are any affects on libido, recovery, strength gains, general feeling of well being etc. etc. Not bothering with blood tests as to be honest it's all about how I feel, not so much about the actual reading in my particular case at this time.
Will see if there are any affects on libido, recovery, strength gains, general feeling of well being etc. etc. Not bothering with blood tests as to be honest it's all about how I feel, not so much about the actual reading in my particular case at this time.
Blood results dont lie this is the best way to see if something is working or not. Some people may not feel a libido increase from supplements and have a higher testosterone levels.
Also 3 months is too long you should feel the effects within 7-14 days max a blood test should be done on day 30.
If you do not feel it by then, well its not working.
Our response times dependent on the testosterone level to being with are 3,7,14 days any where in this time you get a response and usually on one of those key days.
If you haven't got rock hard bonars that feel like you could stab a hole in the wall then it isn't working.