carbs are bad fats are good

[oldcorollas]

.

 

[chocchillimango]

none of them are intrinsically "bad"

sugar in whole foods like fruit and veg are ok as they come packaged together with a whole lot of other stuff and fibre so the absorption process is slower in the digestive tract and more regulated.

fructose is bad if you have an intolerance as it ferments in the gut due to malabsorption but that's a whole other topic.

too much sugar and in concentrated form is where it becomes a problem (for some/most???).

overexposure to most things usually leads to trouble.

the modern diet is probably too skewed towards refined carbs/sugars and so overexposure is more common than it once would have been.

 

[CaT_SPeW]

none of them are intrinsically "bad"

sugar in whole foods like fruit and veg are ok as they come packaged together with a whole lot of other stuff and fibre so the absorption process is slower in the digestive tract and more regulated.

fructose is bad if you have an intolerance as it ferments in the gut due to malabsorption but that's a whole other topic.

too much sugar and in concentrated form is where it becomes a problem (for some/most???).

overexposure to most things usually leads to trouble.

the modern diet is probably too skewed towards refined carbs/sugars and so overexposure is more common than it once would have been.

are you saying peanut butter cups are not optimal?

 

[chocchillimango]

are you saying peanut butter cups are not optimal?

lol I'm sure they are....especially the Reeses ones...

 

[bull]

Stupidity makes people fat. They just use carbs to do it in some cases.

Sugar isn't bad but it will kill you if you abuse it for 50 years.

For all you suckers talking about how far away Maccas is, I have got 350 ks to the closest one I know of and it takes about 4.5 hours. What do I win?

 

[oldcorollas]

.

 

[IRON TANKS]

Please see chocs scientific posts of peace.

Yes, given the same caloric intake, my fat loss is definitely stripped faster when I replace excess CHO for fat & protein. This has been measured. Not placebo. In terms of fat loss, generically you can say if you expend more than you take in, you will "lose" - but a calorie isn't a calorie when talking about micros (ie; your long term health) - there really is an individual component to it. In my experience with quite a number of clients, those who have more endo tendencies in their make up get punished more by excess CHO (refined) intake.

 

[chocchillimango]

Please see chocs scientific posts of peace.

that's two nobel prizes right there

 

[jzpowahz]

I agree with Bazza and ironically I'm currently low carbing (because I like to carb cycle from time to time and as I want a good calorie deficit and wish to retain as much LBM as possible and keep hormonal levels regular as possible P&F are more important for this)

Protein is insulinogenic as well. Insulin is not the devil.

Insulin resistant people will do well by cutting out or reducing refined carbs.

GI has little relevance to do with long term weight loss.

Fibre is important.

People with food intolerances shouldn't eat those foods. Doesn't mean people who don't have those intolerances shouldn't either.

I don't of anyone who has binges on coconut oil, olive oil, avocados or other "healthy" fats. As opposed to the number of people who binge on chocolate and other processed foods. (that contain both F&C) The fact is these foods are calorie dense and put people into a caloric surplus which along with sedentary lifestyles leads to fat gain.

Gary Taubes is a retard haha.

Oh and fitting treats into your diet is a whole lot easier if you track cals/macros and actually have an idea if you will be in a deficit/surplus as opposed to just eating them willy nilly.

 

[pumpiniron]

You need carbs to replenish clycogen stores> end statement.

 

[March83]

I agree with Bazza

not you, too...

I don't of anyone who has binges on coconut oil, olive oil, avocados or other "healthy" fats.

I am your outlier here - I don't buy coconut oil because i can and will eat a 300mL jar in one sitting as soon if i bring it home. i tried keeping it in the fridge so it stays hard, in which case i just eat it with a knife. if we get a few days of warmer weather and it stays in liquid form i don't eat it because i love the texture. same goes for butter (hence why i make it into ghee) - i just eat it like it's cheese.

i have no binge eating issues with carb based foods. when i'm low carbing, the idea of eating outside of my chosen foods is not appealing.

interestingly, my binge eating habits are very closely linked to my protein intake - 1g/kg lbm and i feel snacky all the time. 2.5g/kg lbm and i'm not interested in fat at all. it could be to do with the fact that 1) it takes a bit of effort to fit 200g protein into 1500 cals across 2 sensible meals or 2) when you're only eating 70g fat per day i don't bother buying things like coconut oil, butter nuts, etc or it could just be that protein is super filling to me and so i just don't have the appetite to eat any more.

i do take your point though - it's the calorie density that does the damage.

Gary Taubes is a retard haha.

Oh and fitting treats into your diet is a whole lot easier if you track cals/macros and actually have an idea if you will be in a deficit/surplus as opposed to just eating them willy nilly.

you know, i know LC works for many so it's best to just not get tied up in the dogma, preachiness and general douch-baggery surrounding some parts of the low-carb, no-carb, keto, paleo, primal, etc, communities. douche or not, if random fatties can take taubes' advice and gain control over their eating habits and weight then i'm all for it. everyone is looking for the right diet for them and if someone is too lazy to count calories but they can chose a set of eating rules that work for them (and obviously keep them in deficit by controlling appetite) then that's awesome. my gf is a perfect example of this - appetite vanishes when she eats fat + protein and she loses weight without trying. eating SAD, she still loses weight but she has to count cals and go hungry.

for the record, i control carbs (currently eating 80g/day), meet minimum protein (200g/day) and use the rest for fat. i also IF so when i eat, i eat well.

 

[Big Mick]

I am not really sure why people insist on arguing the sky is blue

Refined carbs are bad for you, and our bodies are not designed to consume them. We get enough carbs from healthy sources such as fruit, berries, milk etc etc where they are combined with nutrients and fibre and protein as part of a whole food, not a refined stripped down carb source with zero nutritional value.

For those that missed the point have another look at the original post and attached picture, explains it quite clearly and simply.

Not sure why everyone always wants to argue the extreme, no one said to never eat any carbs, just not refined nutrition less rubbish as it does nothing good for you.

And no matter how much people think carb timing does not matter try giving your 4 year old a large glass of red cordial as a bed time drink and then tell me it makes no difference

I know when my kids had sugar without having seen them eat it. Having a huge carb feed for dinner and going to bed will not help anyone lose weight, where as the same amount of carbs for breakfast will be much better utilised for energy rather than fat production assuming you move around and do some physical activity during the day.

No one is saying a calorie excess will not make people fat as it does, and it is much easier to consume excess calories when eating refined sugar, cakes, bread, pasta, biscuits, coke, soft drinks, etc than when eating steak, eggs, chicken, bananas berries, and vegetables etc you will also find the later will keep you full for longer, and stop you craving sugar and snacks.

 

[jzpowahz]

Not sure why everyone always wants to argue the extreme, no one said to never eat any carbs, just not refined nutrition less rubbish as it does nothing good for you.

No one is saying to live off "junk" food. However, you can certainly fit them into your diet without A)getting fat & B)becoming "unhealthy"

And no matter how much people think carb timing does not matter try giving your 4 year old a large glass of red cordial as a bed time drink and then tell me it makes no difference

Do you or any other adult you know get such an energy hit from red cordial?

I know when my kids had sugar without having seen them eat it. Having a huge carb feed for dinner and going to bed will not help anyone lose weight, where as the same amount of carbs for breakfast will be much better utilised for energy rather than fat production assuming you move around and do some physical activity during the day.

Your metabolsim does not turn off at night. Are you saying that if someone was to eat carbs at night (from fruit, bread, pop tarts whatever) and they are in a calorie deficit over the entire day that they will put on fat?

 

[Big Mick]

Are you saying that if someone was to eat carbs at night (from fruit, bread, pop tarts whatever) and they are in a calorie deficit over the entire day that they will put on fat?

It's like pulling teeth, what does common sense tell you??

UMMMMMM no.

But what if you are not in calorie deficit???

I mean people need to start using common sense, and just be normal, if you are in calorie deficit you lose weight, no matter what you eat, but it's about living not just losing weight, at the end you can just eat Tim Tams and still lose weight but how will that go for you in the long run??

This forum gets really annoying at times because people take everything out of context and to the extremes, how about just be normal and not argu against everything that is proven.

Or are you saying you can just eat sugar, and tim tams and crap and still be performing at your best and living a long and healthy life??

 

[chocchillimango]

I think everyone is arguing mostly the same point...moderation is the key if you are going to indulge in treats of any kind (particularly refined carbs, saturated fats etc).

Eating mostly whole foods with some treats is a perfectly OK way to eat and won't make you fat. Overeating anything, good bad or indifferent, will make you fat. The composition of your diet will have some effect on health markers though (blood sugar/insulin response, lipids, etc), as does genetics and lifestyle factors.

Our own individual make up of these things will make us respond in our own way to diet changes, lifestyle changes etc. To some extent you can manipulate this too but not entirely.

So it's not a black and white issue. To treat it as such is simplistic.

But I have to agree with Chris - your metabolism has a 24/7 job. It doesn't take a break when you sleep and you don't need to burn off ingested calories of any description within an hour of ingesting them.
Carbs at night are fine, fats at night are fine. Eat when hungry and time your foods according to your own patterns.

Some people can't eat carbs at night because it keeps them awake, for others it helps them sleep. we tolerate foods in different ways.

Get to know your own body.

And don't follow the twinkie diet ...

 

[Bazza20]

I am not really sure why people insist on arguing the sky is blue

Refined carbs are bad for you, and our bodies are not designed to consume them. We get enough carbs from healthy sources such as fruit, berries, milk etc etc where they are combined with nutrients and fibre and protein as part of a whole food, not a refined stripped down carb source with zero nutritional value.

For those that missed the point have another look at the original post and attached picture, explains it quite clearly and simply.

Not sure why everyone always wants to argue the extreme, no one said to never eat any carbs, just not refined nutrition less rubbish as it does nothing good for you.

And no matter how much people think carb timing does not matter try giving your 4 year old a large glass of red cordial as a bed time drink and then tell me it makes no difference

I know when my kids had sugar without having seen them eat it. Having a huge carb feed for dinner and going to bed will not help anyone lose weight, where as the same amount of carbs for breakfast will be much better utilised for energy rather than fat production assuming you move around and do some physical activity during the day.

No one is saying a calorie excess will not make people fat as it does, and it is much easier to consume excess calories when eating refined sugar, cakes, bread, pasta, biscuits, coke, soft drinks, etc than when eating steak, eggs, chicken, bananas berries, and vegetables etc you will also find the later will keep you full for longer, and stop you craving sugar and snacks.

Mick the original post totally wrong. Carbs don't make you fat, excess calories do. I am losing weight on 400g of carbs a day at the moment, if it was right how is that possible. And yes fat can make you fat be proven beyond doubt.

Refined carbs still have nutrients. No one is saying live off pure sugar but the blanked statement of refined carbs are bad for you is wrong.

Carb timing doesn't matter. How do you think the same amount of carbs at night will make you fat but in the morning it won't. It's the same amount of energy how can one make you fat and the other not just by moving it around.

Sugar doesn't make kids hyper its a myth, been disproven. The activities or environment that usually accompanies when kids have sugary food makes them hyper not the sugar.

 

[Bazza20]

Or are you saying you can just eat sugar, and tim tams and crap and still be performing at your best and living a long and healthy life??

Yes this is what gets fucking annoying. Who remotely even said that.

 

[jzpowahz]

I totally agree with Viv's last post.

Or are you saying you can just eat sugar, and tim tams and crap and still be performing at your best and living a long and healthy life??

The original post said that carbs make us fat. Nothing to do with health.

If you want to go to extremes. Are you saying that you will not lose weight if you were to eat 8 pieces of refined white bread per day? (23P/142C/4F FYI)

I don't know, I tend to agree with Alan Aragon and Lyle McDonald on the matter who have conveniently already written articles on it. Sorry, no pic for cliff notes.

How We Get Fat | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

AA one is in his research review which I cannot share sorry.

 

[Darkoz]

I think everyone is arguing mostly the same point...moderation is the key if you are going to indulge in treats of any kind (particularly refined carbs, saturated fats etc).

Eating mostly whole foods with some treats is a perfectly OK way to eat and won't make you fat. Overeating anything, good bad or indifferent, will make you fat. The composition of your diet will have some effect on health markers though (blood sugar/insulin response, lipids, etc), as does genetics and lifestyle factors.

Our own individual make up of these things will make us respond in our own way to diet changes, lifestyle changes etc. To some extent you can manipulate this too but not entirely.

So it's not a black and white issue. To treat it as such is simplistic.

But I have to agree with Chris - your metabolism has a 24/7 job. It doesn't take a break when you sleep and you don't need to burn off ingested calories of any description within an hour of ingesting them.
Carbs at night are fine, fats at night are fine. Eat when hungry and time your foods according to your own patterns.

Some people can't eat carbs at night because it keeps them awake, for others it helps them sleep. we tolerate foods in different ways.

Get to know your own body.

And don't follow the twinkie diet ...

ChocChillii's a smart girl
The thread should end on this.

 

[Big Mick]

Mick the original post totally wrong. Carbs don't make you fat, excess calories do. I am losing weight on 400g of carbs a day at the moment, if it was right how is that possible. And yes fat can make you fat be proven beyond doubt.

FFS, this keeps going around in circles, YES BEING IN CALORIE DEFICIT NO MATTER WHAT YOU EAT WILL HAVE YOU LOSING WEIGHT IT IS JUST COMMON SENSE

You can eat tim tams as long as you stay in deficit you will lose weight it is just plain old common sense, which should these days be called rare sense as no one seems to have it.

But will a diet of tim tams be sustainable, will you be feeling full all day, will be pulling maximum lifts and gains in the gym, will your body be healthy.....my guess would be NO.

This thread is just painful, how can anyone argue that eating healthy proper whole foods rather than refined carbs is better for you and will be easier to maintain a healthy weight

It's got me stuffed, I won't look at this thread again its just too frustrating...it is a PROVEN FACT (not guess work) that refined carbs spike insulin levels unnecessarily, causing people to retain fat, more fat than they otherwise would it's science, carbs will also retain water in your body making you look more bloated.

And YES if you are in calorie deficit you can and will still lose weight eating carbs, but you will not be as healthy and probably won't feel as satisfied during the day with insulin spikes and cravings.