DB Squats

[wingman]

Dumbbell Front Squat
This is the squat I am referring to. Yes, I feel like I have to straighten way more than with BS, I can't push my hips out as far back in this format without losing balance. Its also harder I think because so much effort is required to hold the DB equally in place, without it toppling over and knocking my head with it.

Have you tried doing front squats?

 

[TLS]

When I travel for work I end up in hotel gyms that have 12kg barbells and 30 kg DBs. So I do DB squats. I feel the OPs pain.
Oh, and as a mechanical engineer, your use of terms like "moment force" distresses me.

 

[0ni]

Hmmm, I'm not 100% sure on this but I think Darkos is right.

The moment force must be able to pivot (rotate) from a central place ie barbell on back, where as the dumbbell would not be in a stand alone center, thus creating a principle moment, or a moment of movement from a non-central lever.

But than again, I googled this shit after writing all that shit and now I'm more confused LOL......fwaaaark high school was 14yrs ago, gime a break you basteds

The moment forces are on the hip
The moment arm is the spine
Increase the length of the moment arm (by changing the position of the COG, high bar, front bar etc) and you either need to work harder because the lever is longer or you need to move the pivot point so that it is nearer the centre of gravity (staying more upright). This is why high bar or front squats are harder than low bar squats, because you need to stay more upright to keep the centre of gravity over the mid foot and doing so puts you in a less efficient position to squat

 

[TrentZor]

God u guys get technical. LOL

 

[Jungnaut]

Have you tried doing front squats?

That was the first time I attempted it, I had always been doing back squats in the past. why?

 

[Rambodian]

The moment forces are on the hip
The moment arm is the spine
Increase the length of the moment arm (by changing the position of the COG, high bar, front bar etc) and you either need to work harder because the lever is longer or you need to move the pivot point so that it is nearer the centre of gravity (staying more upright). This is why high bar or front squats are harder than low bar squats, because you need to stay more upright to keep the centre of gravity over the mid foot and doing so puts you in a less efficient position to squat

Yes you may be right Oni, I'm no expert, I just remember doing that sort of stuff from high school (bloody long time ago). I can remember my teacher telling us to think of a bolt being undone with a spanner, the force moment is provided by the nut and the moment arm is from the nut to the end of the lever (spanner). So the moment arm pivots around it creating leverage ie hips go back, knees go forward but bar stays central to foot position.
Thus the body has 3 moment arms, but only one force moment provided by the bar.
I suppose it depends which end you technically consider the force being applied. In your way of thinking the leverage gets harder the further away from the hips (your moment force, or central pivot point) and leveraged from there to the end of the spine (shoulders where bar is placed, low being closer or high slightly further away again). My way of thinking is the bar on your shoulders stays central in its movement (ie stays central all the way up and down in the movement if squat is done correctly) so the moment arms lever from its center. I say this because the load applied to the hips is greater when standing than at the bottom of the squat as gravity wants weight to drop straight down, hence the bar being central.
I can understand the hips are loaded more than any other part of the body in the movement, but force is not load although it can technically be load also.

EDIT: Fwaaaark that's my understanding of it anyway......well that's at least why I thought what I thought, but as I said, you may be right, not arguing with you just stating why I think you were wrong. The pic you show doesn't take account of all the bodies levers, only 1 and is talking of only 1 pivot point, which makes it technically incorrect but very understandable anyway as I know what is trying to be said.

 

[Goosey]

If you want to emphasize the legs in this movement with DB's hold them by your side instead, heavy weight, high rep's.

If you want to get good a front squatting, do goblet's or buy a bar.

 

[Darkoz]

It's fucken lifting weights with a barbell or dumbell, it anit fucken engineering, calculus or any other complicated calculations FFS.
Honestly, if you spent as much time and effort actually lifting rather than using a fucken calculator and slide rule you'd be twice as big and strong, seriously.

 

[Goosey]

Yeah well I could give a fat rats klacker what exercise is used, you've just got to ask yourself, why am I doing this exercise?
Will it work for me?
am I doing this just because some celebrity is espousing it ?
I agree Dorkoz, put away the slide rule, exercise is an art, not a science.

 

[Darkoz]

..... put away the slide rule, exercise is an art, not a science.

Spot on Andy, this should be tattooed on every gym rats forehead.

 

[Rambodian]

put away the slide rule, exercise is an art, not a science.

I agree Andy, I was just interested as I remembered a little about this concept and thought I'd add my 2c

TBH, I couldn't give a shit Do front squat FFS, use a barbell because you can add more weight LOL

 

[Jungnaut]

If you want to emphasize the legs in this movement with DB's hold them by your side instead, heavy weight, high rep's.

Isn't that leaning more towards a DB deadlift?

 

[Rambodian]

Isn't that leaning more towards a DB deadlift?

Hmm, maybe trap bar deadlift.

It is simply a better option to use a barbell because dumbbells will never hold the weight required for decent growth of some of the largest muscles in your body: Quads and hammies. To get growth and tone in your thighs and legs, you need barbell squats with adequate weight to really hit them hard enough.

 

[Goosey]

Isn't that leaning more towards a DB deadlift?

No it's leaning back more towards a trap bar lift.

And notice I didn't use the term trap bar dead-lift.

Because these are all different exercises with differing outcomes.

 

[D1cko]

All this is way too much thought...If all you can think about during a squat is this angle plus that force blah blah blah...how the fuck can you concentrate on just lifting a fuckin heavy weight?

 

[Goosey]

All this is way too much thought...If all you can think about during a squat is this angle plus that force blah blah blah...how the fuck can you concentrate on just lifting a fuckin heavy weight?

There is nothing wrong with this and lifting "a fucking heavy weight is relative"

Jumping continually from one protocol to another however is a sure way to sabotage gains and where most fuck up.

 

[D1cko]

Looking at my statement, I realise it may be a bit vague...
To clarify:
I get that form and body postioning is vital, but thinking about it should be limited to 'practice'.
Eg: When I played golf as a junior, my coach always said, DON'T try to check/change your swing faults during a game, Just play naturally. Save the corrections for practice sessions.

When I apply this for my training, I treat warm-ups as practice, some people treat warm-ups with too little importance, and just fluff through them...there should be a huge focus on lifting those weights with the same form and focus as a heavier weight. I just reckon putting more focus into your lighter lifts would ensure your heavier lifts stay true to form when all your focus may be directed at just 'lifting the weight'

Well I hope that makes sense even though off topic...lol

 

[Goosey]

Yeah, I prescribe to these little thoughts.

Practice makes perfect; as long as you practice perfectly.
Practicing mistakes makes for perfect mistakes.

And

The first repetition is always the most dangerous repetition… and the last repetition, when you are simply not strong enough to hurt yourself, is always the safest.

 

[0ni]

Yes you may be right Oni, I'm no expert, I just remember doing that sort of stuff from high school (bloody long time ago). I can remember my teacher telling us to think of a bolt being undone with a spanner, the force moment is provided by the nut and the moment arm is from the nut to the end of the lever (spanner). So the moment arm pivots around it creating leverage ie hips go back, knees go forward but bar stays central to foot position.
Thus the body has 3 moment arms, but only one force moment provided by the bar.
I suppose it depends which end you technically consider the force being applied. In your way of thinking the leverage gets harder the further away from the hips (your moment force, or central pivot point) and leveraged from there to the end of the spine (shoulders where bar is placed, low being closer or high slightly further away again). My way of thinking is the bar on your shoulders stays central in its movement (ie stays central all the way up and down in the movement if squat is done correctly) so the moment arms lever from its center. I say this because the load applied to the hips is greater when standing than at the bottom of the squat as gravity wants weight to drop straight down, hence the bar being central.
I can understand the hips are loaded more than any other part of the body in the movement, but force is not load although it can technically be load also.

EDIT: Fwaaaark that's my understanding of it anyway......well that's at least why I thought what I thought, but as I said, you may be right, not arguing with you just stating why I think you were wrong. The pic you show doesn't take account of all the bodies levers, only 1 and is talking of only 1 pivot point, which makes it technically incorrect but very understandable anyway as I know what is trying to be said.

Yeah looks about right to me

 

[D1cko]

Yeah, I prescribe to these little thoughts.

Practice makes perfect; as long as you practice perfectly.
Practicing mistakes makes for perfect mistakes.

And

The first repetition is always the most dangerous repetition… and the last repetition, when you are simply not strong enough to hurt yourself, is always the safest.

Never heard that one, makes sense!