Test Booster Trial - anyone interested?

[trofius]

I know the scientist in me has all sorts of issues but trying to think of ways to keep it simple

 

[Bioflex]

consistancy with all aspects need to be considered

diet, needs to remain constant, and with enought calories for the body to use the extra test if its produced

participants need to already be on a steady, linear program, if they start going harder at gym, or change their routine, this may also increase test

3 groups would be good, more than 30 subjects per group would make the results statistically valid.

Normal testosterone range is from memory 14-50

blood test should maybe include testosterone, and hcg, the test would be called a free androgen index i am pretty sure (people that have had their test looked at could add in here) test0sterone by itself my not give a true picture..

blood would need to be taken at the same time of the day...


BIOflex, have you considered approaching a university, with a human movements /sports sciences department or clinical trials company, and see if they would be interested in conducting an experiment, it may be a good research topic for someone, all you would have to do is supply the products..

The idea with this trial is to keep things as consistent as possible. The issue with those who have been dieting is that if they have only just started a diet, test levels will likely be falling.
If you had levels measured at the start of the trial before a period of significant caloric restriction started then it would affect the results that measured well into the diet.

I am more than happy to have someone involved who is dieting, however they must have been on their diet for at least 4 weeks and their diet must be consistent, not one which uses a reducing number of calories throughout.

The idea of getting a University involved would be fantastic, realistically though this would take a lot of time writing a proposal and assisting the design for the study. For a guy who hasn't a moment of spare time these days, this isn't possible.
Something to aim for in the future, most definitely!

 

[Bioflex]

Trofius, good idea, that will give you a bit of a base line reading and give some more information.

But it is still does not reliably tell us if it even works for that person. It is still open for the placebo effect to influence the results or many other factors during that time. Example I started eating ice cream every night for the last month and my strength has gone up in that same time. Does that mean that for me ice cream is proven to increase strength.

Really it is just not possible to get reliable results with such small numbers.

I am impressed with the enthusiasm both for and against this experiment.

Just to cover a few bases. This is in no ways supposed to be a scientific study, as it has been mentioned the time frames for results are too low, there aren't enough test subjects and it is impossible to control all the variables.
Incidentally, it is impossible to control all the variables in any study, the idea is to control enough to give the study some purpose, however there are sceptics that believe as every study is flawed in some way, results are always meaningless, so validity comes down to the individual.

Basically, the idea here is simple. I am looking for three candidates who have been very consistent with their training and diet for the last few years.
We also need volunteers who are willing to remain very consistent through the trial period in terms of diet, supplements and training - which will limit other variables as much as possible.

If participants log their results and regimes in public it will give everyone an opportunity to scrutinise any inconsistencies and finally people will be able to decide whether any benefits had are worthwhile, given their own criteria.

I think much of the criticism of this comes down to a comparison against a clinical study, there is no comparison.
Comparing it to "Hey Bro, this shit gives me a hard on every morning" kind of feedback which is unfortunately 95% of why people use a supp in the first place (personal experience which later becomes bro science), I believe it is very valuable indeed.

As to why I am doing it.
We have an opportunity here to get a decent gauge of how these products work together with three candidates willing to log results. The fact they will actually get test levels measured before and after is what clinches it for me.
If nothing else, I am looking forward to seeing whether the "Hey Bro, this shit gives me a hard on every morning" actually means an increase in test levels.

I have a theory that many mechanisms which active sex drive and erections (amongst other things) have little impact on actual test levels - which explain the popularity of these products, despite them often not showing hormonal increases.

Btw, if anyone ever sees me quoting this "trial" as having some kind of scientific legitimacy please link in this post and do your best to embarrass me, as it should never be touted as that!

 

[Bioflex]

BTW, we still have one spot left in the trial!
If anyone is keen and feels they meet the criteria, please let me know by pm.

 

[Big Mick]

Great explanation, I am booked in to get blood test done at 8:30am on Monday, already have referral from my GP, results should be back a few days later.

Original test date was yesterday, but work got in the way have day off on Monday so no dramas this time around

 

[candyflip]

I've seen my (not regular) GP this morning, spun a story about low libido for the last 2 years, and never having full bloods done before and he's referred me. This is what the referral says:

"FULL BLOOD COUNT; ELECTROLYTES; CREATININE; UREA; LIVER FUNCTION; CHOLESTEROL - total; HDL; LDL TG's; PSA; GLUCOSE FAST"

Will this referral get me testosterone levels as I hoped?

 

[MaxBrenner]

I've seen my (not regular) GP this morning, spun a story about low libido for the last 2 years, and never having full bloods done before and he's referred me. This is what the referral says:

"FULL BLOOD COUNT; ELECTROLYTES; CREATININE; UREA; LIVER FUNCTION; CHOLESTEROL - total; HDL; LDL TG's; PSA; GLUCOSE FAST"

Will this referral get me testosterone levels as I hoped?

No it won't mate. He is not testing for in any testosterone area's. Total, free etc.

 

[candyflip]

bugger... why are GP's so reluctant to do this!?!?!?

 

[MaxBrenner]

CF, i think it comes back to most GP's being DH's

 

[jzpowahz]

Got a mate who could be interested. When you say consistent training, what sort specifically? He does some weight training to maintain strength but the majority of his training is mma.

 

[candyflip]

My old housemate is a GP. I'm gonna hit him up for a proper referral.

Damn - what a waste of $75 that was.

 

[sylvar0one]

Hi there, still looking for people? my mate on this site refered me to you he said i would be a good candidate. I am interested. i have just registered on this site. so let me know if your still looking.

cheers bro

silv

 

[Big Mick]

My old housemate is a GP. I'm gonna hit him up for a proper referral.

Damn - what a waste of $75 that was.

You just need to ask for it mate , testosterone and estrogen levels, I am getting the other stuff tested as well while there.

Why $75????

The referral was free, not sure on the cost of final test, but my gp said probably covered by Medicare.

 

[candyflip]

You just need to ask for it mate , testosterone and estrogen levels, I am getting the other stuff tested as well while there.

Why $75????

The referral was free, not sure on the cost of final test, but my gp said probably covered by Medicare.

I did - he was reluctant and tried to explain away my 'lack of libido' on all sorts of other factors.

$75 is a standard consultation at Midtown Medical Clinic.

 

[Bioflex]

Hi there, still looking for people? my mate on this site refered me to you he said i would be a good candidate. I am interested. i have just registered on this site. so let me know if your still looking.

cheers bro

silv

Possibly.

Guys, so far we have -

BigMick
Candyflip
Pistachio

There was another who pm'ed me early in on the piece and they seemed like a great candidate, we actually agreed to include them but due to my inbox filling up so fast with sample requests, I accidently deleted their details.

If that nameless individual who I had agreed to include could contact me once again that would be great.

Guys, lets look at this as a very basic first go.
If results are inconsistent and barely noticable I would likely leave it. If (and I expect they are significant) I think it would call for a more thorough attempt, where we can incorporate the guidance of Max or even look at the University study.

You have to watch out for studies that get too thorough though, I remember almost falling off my chair when a well known supp company owner touted his supps publicly as great as they "had spent millions on independent trials to verify them".
Yes, absolutely no doubt that all that money meant the results remained completely independent without an agenda......

If I did find someone who wanted to take this on we would willingly provide all necessary ingredients, but it would be a massive amount of work. It does make someone doing a thesis or study at Uni the best candidate though, I wonder if we have any current scholars onboard!

 

[MaxBrenner]

I'm happy to help out as previously mentioned, just say the word and we can work out the nitty gritty of it all

 

[Big Mick]

$75 is a standard consultation at Midtown Medical Clinic.

I see mine was covered by Medicare, have done the blood test already, so far has cost me nothing but some blood and time.

Just have to book back in to the GP to get the results, hopefully tomorrow or the next day, if not definitely one day this week. May be will still get a bill for the tests

Either way I don't really care, as it's still benefiting me knowing where I stand even without this trail.

Also wondering when this will kick off, and if we should continue our current supplementation??

I use multi vitamin, fish oil, as well as BN Pre Workout NT on weight days, and BN BCAA on weight days, as well as BN protein shakes twice a day.

So what will we be taking and what dosages??

Test Booster Combination recommended: 2caps AM and 2 cpas PM

DIM recommended: 1 cap daily

D Aspartic Acid recommended: 2gram twice a day

And on another note,

would it be worth while to include the ZMA Complex seeing its only one cap a day before bed, and its less than $10 per months to use???

 

[Big Mick]

Ok, have my blood results back......have left message with Ben from BN, awaiting further instructions on what is next.....won't give too much away for now, but it appears I might need this stuff anyway

Just need to know if there will be dedicated new thread for this, or if I should just add it here, or in my own workout log. Will let Ben or Aaron decide

 

[MaxBrenner]

I'd say a new thread will and should be posted for when the trial starts.

Big Mick, shoot me an email with your weight and I'll get your nutritional guide done so you have it on hand for when it kicks off.

FYI, I'd suggest all participants be on the nutritional plan at least a week or 2 before the trial begins.

 

[Big Mick]

Email send!

Thanks!