Biggest Nutrition Myths

[Christian]

Now did you read every single line of either of those? Then did you check the references of every single article cited?

Then did you read more then the abstract and assess the whole article?

How do you know the auther interpreted the study correctly?

I already showed you how your other prophet misrepresented a study... How can you say no one else will ever do that?

Do these people sell books? Do they want to be an authority? Im not saying what you are reading is bullshit im syaing YOU dont know how to determin what is and what isnt...

Its like you went to a church picked up a bible and spoke to a priest then go telling every other religion how they are wrong. Well based on what? What someone else said...

Nutrition is the same as religion. But lets not forget this argument is here because of your calories are calories rubbish..

 

[Hirdy]

Thanks for the info Bro.

I've read all the replies in this thread and I agree with Bro (a calorie is a calorie, many small meals = 3 squares), it makes sense and those that are trying to shoot him down are using extreme examples or nitpicking at his wording. Of course one meal a day would leave you feeling like crap for most of the day, and eating just tim tams before bed would mean you weren't getting any vitamins etc (I think thats the first time the word "vitamin" has been used in this thread). Your sleep would probably be crap too after all of that sugar but the point is if you eat under maintenance your body will be forced to burn something else for energy and you will lose weight.

Anyway, I have a question about one of the other points(#8), about how muscle doesn't burn many more calories than fat... Which basically means that if you are 80kg it doesn't really matter whether you are muscly or fat, your calorie needs are basically the same.

at rest an extra kilo of muscle burns 13 cal per day as opposed to a kilo of fat which burns 4.5/kg/BW. This amount is insignificant, as it means that by adding 10kg of muscle, you will be burning an extra 130 calories per day

Now this flies in the face of the line of thought which is "to lose weight, put on some muscle which will gobble up fat while you're asleep/resting". This is surely what convinces many women who want to lose weight to lift weights rather than just do cardio? Another way to express it would be "More muscle = bigger fat burning furnace"

Please explain if I have this correct, as it doesn't make squatting seem like such a good idea for a female wanting to lose weight. She'd have to put on 10kg of muscle just for her caloric deficit to increase by one banana?

 

[Christian]

I'm not doubting what your doing at PTC works Markos.

With regards to the example you gave. Can i say I totally agree with it. When i stopped eating processed carbs I lost weight straight away. My thoughts on what was happening is that processed carbs are so easy to underestimate how much your eating and then so easy to overeat them. It's easy to smash a few hundred grams of processed carbs in a meal, not so easy to do that with fruit and veg. The overall effect of cutting out processed carbs is just lowering your daily carbs and calories.

My thoughts anyway.

Because a calorie isnt a calorie...

Simple processed carbs work on the brain much like drugs of addiction... Because it is a survival mechanism built into us. Sadly people have cashed in on this and the world is in the state that it is.

 

[Christian]

Thanks for the info Bro.

I've read all the replies in this thread and I agree with Bro (a calorie is a calorie, many small meals = 3 squares), it makes sense and those that are trying to shoot him down are using extreme examples or nitpicking at his wording. Of course one meal a day would leave you feeling like crap for most of the day, and eating just tim tams before bed would mean you weren't getting any vitamins etc (I think thats the first time the word "vitamin" has been used in this thread). Your sleep would probably be crap too after all of that sugar but the point is if you eat under maintenance your body will be forced to burn something else for energy and you will lose weight.

Anyway, I have a question about one of the other points(#8), about how muscle doesn't burn many more calories than fat... Which basically means that if you are 80kg it doesn't really matter whether you are muscly or fat, your calorie needs are basically the same.



Now this flies in the face of the line of thought which is "to lose weight, put on some muscle which will gobble up fat while you're asleep/resting". This is surely what convinces many women who want to lose weight to lift weights rather than just do cardio? Another way to express it would be "More muscle = bigger fat burning furnace"

Please explain if I have this correct, as it doesn't make squatting seem like such a good idea for a female wanting to lose weight. She'd have to put on 10kg of muscle just for her caloric deficit to increase by one banana?

You musnt of read all the responses because i covered this.

It stated muscle at "rest" well every time you move your not at rest so therefore you burn the calories stated sleeping or sitting IF you have not done any weight training then its a whole other ball game.

^^ I dont know what the purpose of that point is even? Its a bit ridiculous.. Also take into account the hormonal implicaitons of excess adipose tissue compared to muscle.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

I'd like to see more examples of people putting on 10kg of muscle in 6 months though. I managed about 7 kg myself, so I don't think 10th kg is outside the realm of possibility, but it wouldn't be common without some ergonic aids.

10kg in six months is quite possible for underweight young adult males. I mean I have a client who did 6kg in two months, about 5kg of which was lean mass - he maintained the same bodyfat. When I joined the military, I was 63-64kg, something like that. 13 weeks later I was 82-83kg. I couldn't guess what bodyfat I was, however I still fit into the 83cm waist pants they'd issued me (though they are baggy), so it certainly wasn't all fat. Like my client, I was underweight, so gained quickly with good food and a heavy physical workload.

If they're already a healthy bodyweight, much harder.

But my client, another trainer said he must be on steroids, such gains were humanly impossible. The fact is that eating lots of good food and doing proper progressive resistance training is very rare. If you fuck about with McDs and bench, curls, crunches and cardio, you're just not going to get anywhere what's humanly possible, whether that's way up high or just above where you are now.

Lyle McDonald has already exposed his lack of experience of training people for strength. I strongly doubt he has any experience training underweight young adult males, either. So he just doesn't know the amazing gains they can achieve by good food and heavy physical work. Thus I am not really interested in his opinions of what is or isn't possible.

As far as my achievements go, I've dropped from low 20%s body fat, say 22-23%? to around 13-14% where I'm at now. I was hoping to get down to 12%. I have 4 visible abs when lighting isn't too bad. Nothing really spectacular.

Well done, keep going.

Now start a thread telling us how you achieved that. It would be very interesting and useful. Summaries of articles by people who never train anyone, not so much.

untouchable, you are missing the point: whether it's physiological or behavioural doesn't really matter, so long as it gets us results without causing us long-term harm. Results count.

 

[Oli]

Hunger control etc are all psychological factors which shouldnt be acknowledged in this thread (although they are important factors which can't be neglected)

This. If I were eating 5000+ calories a day theres no way I'd try and do it in 3 meals. On the other hand if I was running a keto or carb rotating diet to cut I'd be a complete moron eating 8 meals a day (small and unsatisfying = recipe for fail).

I also lol at the 'youre full of theories' for Bro. I don't see many lean nattys posting on here from either side of the argument (except maybe morgan) nor 300kg+ squatters (spiritcha and coe might like to interject).

 

[bro]

Now this flies in the face of the line of thought which is "to lose weight, put on some muscle which will gobble up fat while you're asleep/resting". This is surely what convinces many women who want to lose weight to lift weights rather than just do cardio? Another way to express it would be "More muscle = bigger fat burning furnace"

Please explain if I have this correct, as it doesn't make squatting seem like such a good idea for a female wanting to lose weight. She'd have to put on 10kg of muscle just for her caloric deficit to increase by one banana?

Well I didn't say that there isn't a difference as Oli first pointed out, there is in fact a difference but it is vastly smaller than what some people used to say.

N00bs will say that my myth doesn't look at how much calories a muscle uses when it's being worked, and he's right, I'm not sure about that, but the point is the myth that people used to say is that a pound of muscle burns 50 calories AT REST. Which is not true.

Now, onto your question, you want to do weights when you lose weight because you want to lose fat, not muscle. If you lose weight without weights, a good portion might be muscle. And you end up being skinny fat and being light but still looking chubby. That's why everyone should do weights when losing fat.

The muscles burning more calories will make a small difference, but it won't be a huge difference.

 

[Christian]

Yes but the muscles allow you to burn the calories and that is the whole point..

Ronnie coleman burns more calories straining for a shit then some people training on here.

That is the point..

 

[Hirdy]

This is a bit rediculous.. You are talking about the energy needs of muscle at rest...

Once that muscle is engaged in activity its a different story. Why isnt his mentioned?

The extra muscle allows you to achieve activity that would not be able to happen if you didnt have it... Look at when fadi was consuming 16000 cal per day. Muscle allowed him to do this..

Noobs I read this but you didn't cover my question.

Thanks for your response Bro. I totally agree with what you are saying and to lose weight I lifted weights and did cardio and lost the 9kgs I wanted to... But specifically my sister in law is overweight and would be happy to settle for "skinny-fat" and Ive been telling her that squats etc will help her lose weight faster...

But basically if you want to lose weight fast, starve yourself(!) and any movement should only be in aid of increasing the caloric defecit and not to build muscle?

Probably harsh but true?

Nobody ever admits they tried the starvation diet and it worked...

 

[Bazza20]

Because a calorie isnt a calorie...

Simple processed carbs work on the brain much like drugs of addiction... Because it is a survival mechanism built into us. Sadly people have cashed in on this and the world is in the state that it is.

Noobs I've asked this a few times but you just dance around the answer with lots of words. Show me how you can get more energy out of the calories than we would expect to. Nothing here has suggested that yet.

 

[bro]

Noobs I read this but you didn't cover my question.

Thanks for your response Bro. I totally agree with what you are saying and to lose weight I lifted weights and did cardio and lost the 9kgs I wanted to... But specifically my sister in law is overweight and would be happy to settle for "skinny-fat" and Ive been telling her that squats etc will help her lose weight faster...

But basically if you want to lose weight fast, starve yourself(!) and any movement should only be in aid of increasing the caloric defecit and not to build muscle?

Probably harsh but true?

Nobody ever admits they tried the starvation diet and it worked...

Well, look. Starving yourself will work. You will lose muscle and fat. But that kind of behaviour usually leads to regaining the weight. A more moderate approach, making lifestyle changes is always better.

Keeping her muscle will still help her. But the truth is, it won't make a huge difference to the amount on the scale. But I know she might not "care" about muscle, but she will look much better if she keeps her muscle. She probably doesn't want to do a hardcore weights routine.. Even body weight exercises would be be better than nothing... Push ups, chin ups, dips, that kind of stuff.

The first time I lost a decent amount of weight, I lost 10kg, as I was always a bit chubby as a kid. That 10kg got me to a decent weight but I still looked like shit, because that was before I started weight training.

 

[unt0uchable]

untouchable, you are missing the point: whether it's physiological or behavioural doesn't really matter, so long as it gets us results without causing us long-term harm. Results count.

Of course it's about results, results are what we all want

However, the purpose of this discussion is to discuss the results of a psychologically optimal person (i.e. someone that will not deviate from what they're told). Obtaining real world results require the acknowledgement of both physiological and psychological factors, which is not the purpose of this thread

 

[Goosey]

If you have a floret of broccoli that is boiled to a point where it is limp and colorless it is still a broccoli but the macro nutrients have all but gone.

Your body tells you, you need to eat more to compensate.

It's the same for any overly processed food.

The reason it's easy to overeating is because the system is trying to compensate.

A piece of rare steak is going to satiate more than a piece of steak cooked Pittsburg.

 

[Hirdy]

Well, look. Starving yourself will work. You will lose muscle and fat. But that kind of behaviour usually leads to regaining the weight. A more moderate approach, making lifestyle changes is always better.

Keeping her muscle will still help her. But the truth is, it won't make a huge difference to the amount on the scale. But I know she might not "care" about muscle, but she will look much better if she keeps her muscle. She probably doesn't want to do a hardcore weights routine.. Even body weight exercises would be be better than nothing... Push ups, chin ups, dips, that kind of stuff.

The first time I lost a decent amount of weight, I lost 10kg, as I was always a bit chubby as a kid. That 10kg got me to a decent weight but I still looked like shit, because that was before I started weight training.

I'm in total agreeance, and I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone starve themselves, rather they should address liefestyle issues/habits etc.

I just wanted to nail down the theory...of course in practice people are weak willed and there are other factors but you know it's not the theory that's wrong.

The funny thing about these arguments in here is that you seem willing to learn and stand corrected, but others would just flatly refuse to change their opinions no matter how compelling an argument is - they have too much at stake reputation wise.

 

[mick807]

just wanna say if its real world results that count Hulk seems to be getting great results from eating 2 meals a day but no one took notice of that.

 

[Christian]

Noobs I've asked this a few times but you just dance around the answer with lots of words. Show me how you can get more energy out of the calories than we would expect to. Nothing here has suggested that yet.

Bazza I never said that you can create more energy from energy? I dont know where you are getting this from?

I said "calories are not just calories" there is more to the process then simply 1 calorie of fat /protein or carbs has the same effect in or on the body...

As was previously stated by someone else... Eat under maintenance but the wrong thing and you gain fat, its simple...

Then the "eat your protein then make up the rest with whatever" statement well thats just ridiculous and doesnt need argument.
Bazz i think somewhere you got mixed up with what i said.


Remember that choosing processed food means more calories less micronutrients and harder to balance macros... So naturally proper food is the only way to go.

No one is debating you cant have a piece of cake occasionally. But it is the way the OP came to save the day by " look guys eat protein then whatever" based arguments get me worked up. Then they back peddle and say what you are saying in a different way to not look stupid.

Remember calories are not just claories... Food is infomation and building blocks for your body.

 

[Christian]

just wanna say if its real world results that count Hulk seems to be getting great results from eating 2 meals a day but no one took notice of that.

Depends on your goals..

And the person..

Everyone is different.

 

[mick807]

it would seem his goal is like a lot of others to bulk i'd like to hear more about his strength gains while eating like this.
he is the only one with any real kind of experience with this kind of eating by the sounds of it and every one else is going off arnie and the rise of the supp companies.

 

[bro]

n00bs we keep repeating ourselves, so it's getting a bit pointless, but you still didn't respond to my scenario a couple of pages back.

But answer me this, if carbs are energy as you say, which get stored as fat when we don't use it and fat and protein are "building blocks", does this mean that we can just eat as much protein and fat as we like, and it will all go to "build blocks" lol, presumably meaning all go to muscle?

 

[Christian]

it would seem his goal is like a lot of others to bulk i'd like to hear more about his strength gains while eating like this.
he is the only one with any real kind of experience with this kind of eating by the sounds of it and every one else is going off arnie and the rise of the supp companies.

I can speak about alot of people with intermittent fasting results... Good ones at that however they are manipulating the body through other methods so it is of no point here.

There are other benefits for eating under calories. Such as effects on longevity genes... But like i said it all depends on you and your goals..


YOU
OPTIMAL HEALTH - - - - - - - - - - ^ - - - - - - - - - PERFORMANCE


Think of everything like a sliding scale of benefits... You need to see where you fit in and where u want to fit in.