[MartialArts] UFC 121 - Lesnar vs Velasquez

[dorraj]

or floyd mayweather jnr

 

[dave]

Watching it all now. Schaub technically destroyed Gonzaga mainly due to Gonzaga being an idiot and not taking the fight to the ground.

 

[IRON TANKS]

Enjoyed this UFC.. still can't believe how wonky Lesnar was. Need to watch it again to see what rocked him in the first place.

 

[TTTTTT]

i reckon his defensive skills are quite piss poor. His game is belt the crap out of people on the floor, with not much else.Cain Velasquez got in rocked him and you can easily tell lesnar doesn't like being struck, which was evident in the carwin fight. Velasquez really dominated from start to finish.

Link to the Fight - [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKJM1j4WlRU]YouTube - Cain Velasquez vs Brock Lesnar[/ame]

 

[BigJim]

 

[dave]

Ouch.

Lesnar could be so much better if he spent more time learning to strike and defend but he is old already and I do not see him getting much better. Velasquez is a different story though he does not have that freakiness of Lesnar (even though he is very athletic and has great strength and endurance).

 

[skywalker21]

Old as in 33 ?

 

[ChewOnALiveAnimal]

Old as in 33 ?

Grrr.

 

[dave]

Ah yep 33 with inadequate striking skills will mean even if he can somehow get them up to scratch (good enough not great) in 3 years he will be 36 and getting old for the fight game not many real good years left after that. Needed to start 10 years ago.

 

[ChewOnALiveAnimal]

Ah yep 33 with inadequate striking skills will mean even if he can somehow get them up to scratch (good enough not great) in 3 years he will be 36 and getting old for the fight game not many real good years left after that. Needed to start 10 years ago.

I'd like to see you demonstrate that with Randy.

Its got little to do with his age and a lot to do with everything else.

 

[dave]

Randy used to box when he was in the army, Randy also started when there were a lot less well rounded fighters available, Randy is a different athlete to Lesnar, Randy is a much much much smarter fighter, Randy is just plain fucking better .

Big difference is Randy's intelligence along with Lesnar relying on speed and strength over Randy's strength and endurance. Speed and power go out a lot earlier in your life than endurance.

 

[TTTTTT]

Age isn't the problem. Its more he's got 1 out of the three disciplines down pat and he trains in hill billy teritory where no good sparring partners would be available (no one would wanna live there).

 

[ChewOnALiveAnimal]

Randy used to box when he was in the army, Randy also started when there were a lot less well rounded fighters available, Randy is a different athlete to Lesnar, Randy is a much much much smarter fighter, Randy is just plain fucking better .

Big difference is Randy's intelligence along with Lesnar relying on speed and strength over Randy's strength and endurance. Speed and power go out a lot earlier in your life than endurance.

My point exactly. Age has little to do with it. Thanks for agreeing. Lesnar is simply not a smart fighter (comparitvely) and has a crap background because he relied on the wrong things to get him to where he got to (maybe not the wrong things but not the things that were going to keep him there).

Not sure I agree about the lack of well rounded fighters back then... just a completely different set of fighters available for paying customers. There is a lot of fighters now that are not very adaptable. Check fighter stats and see how many are lopsided. A lot.

I don't agree with your 2nd sentence of the 2nd paragraph. Plenty of power in older guys. Not just in this sport either. Strongmen comps and powerlifting comps are full of 30 -50 y.o.'s +

 

[skywalker21]

Does anyone think we shall soon see Velasquez getting dominated. I dont really rate him. I believe Junior Dos Santos will show him up.

 

[ChewOnALiveAnimal]

Does anyone think we shall soon see Velasquez getting dominated. I dont really rate him. I believe Junior Dos Santos will show him up.

Not sure if Jnr will show him up, but its going to be hard these days for one fighter to stay at the top in the heavy weight division. All of them have a weakness that is another fighters greatest strength. Velasquez is good overall but I think, depending on their matchups, he won't be there for too long.

 

[dave]

My point exactly. Age has little to do
I don't agree with your 2nd sentence of the 2nd paragraph. Plenty of power in older guys. Not just in this sport either. Strongmen comps and powerlifting comps are full of 30 -50 y.o.'s +

Whilst strongman does have elements of power (keg toss etc) a lot of it is muscular endurance and pure maximal strength. Powerlifting is all about maximal strength. Now power is explosiveness or speed x strength. That is lost quickly as we age. Pure explosive athletes like long jumpers and sprinters are passed their prime at 32 and decline a lot from there. Lesnar is like this he relies on his speed and explosiveness for a big man (compared to other heavyweights). Lesnar won't or can't grind out a fight and wear out his opponent like Randy can he will let them punch themselves out on his face though in Carwins case. Since endurance and maximal strength stay longer Randy has an advantage as he ages, he still keeps his main skills. I bet Randy's explosiveness went downhill fast from 36 till now yet he worked around it (yep he has brains). Lesnar does not have this endurance naturally and therefore will probably fade a lot faster.

Lesnar (due to not being a smart fighter) can not learn the needed skill set quickly enough to take full advantage of his explosiveness that he relies upon. Carwin is similar yet is a smarter fighter and learnt anothe skill set. Velasquez is more like Randy he wears down opponents with his superior strength endurance (and brains in Lesnars case) which means he could potential last a long time if he keeps improving and learning.

 

[ChewOnALiveAnimal]

Whilst strongman does have elements of power (keg toss etc) a lot of it is muscular endurance and pure maximal strength. Powerlifting is all about maximal strength. Now power is explosiveness or speed x strength. That is lost quickly as we age. Pure explosive athletes like long jumpers and sprinters are passed their prime at 32 and decline a lot from there. Lesnar is like this he relies on his speed and explosiveness for a big man (compared to other heavyweights). Lesnar won't or can't grind out a fight and wear out his opponent like Randy can he will let them punch themselves out on his face though in Carwins case. Since endurance and maximal strength stay longer Randy has an advantage as he ages, he still keeps his main skills. I bet Randy's explosiveness went downhill fast from 36 till now yet he worked around it (yep he has brains). Lesnar does not have this endurance naturally and therefore will probably fade a lot faster.

Lesnar (due to not being a smart fighter) can not learn the needed skill set quickly enough to take full advantage of his explosiveness that he relies upon. Carwin is similar yet is a smarter fighter and learnt anothe skill set. Velasquez is more like Randy he wears down opponents with his superior strength endurance (and brains in Lesnars case) which means he could potential last a long time if he keeps improving and learning.

I mostly agree with you, however I know you have done plenty of under and post grad study on anatomy etc, I've done and am doing a reasonable amount too and must be coming from a slightly different perspective with the language and science. From a physics point of view I can't fully see it how you put it, but from a biology point of view I pretty much can (the power/speed/strength/explosiveness that is).

 

[Ben]

Cain and Junior should be a good fight.

 

[ChewOnALiveAnimal]

Cain and Junior should be a good fight.

Its so hard to tell these days whats going to be good or not. UFC has gone a little south over the last half dozen matches (IMHO).

I have enjoyed watching Aussie CFC more and I think they could teach the yanks a thing or too about going in hard and with a full heart. We just don't have enough players, especially in the higher weights.

 

[dave]

I mostly agree with you, however I know you have done plenty of under and post grad study on anatomy etc, I've done and am doing a reasonable amount too and must be coming from a slightly different perspective with the language and science. From a physics point of view I can't fully see it how you put it, but from a biology point of view I pretty much can (the power/speed/strength/explosiveness that is).

What don't you get?