Why does everyone jackoff to the little shit?

[D1cko]

I think the poster is correct, to a degree.
Whenever a 6 foot 60kg kid comes in and starts with 2kg dumbells doing delt raises n shit because a dumb PT told him to.... I'd love to smack him over the head and point them to the squat rack and that bar on the floor....
Squats, Bench, Military Press, Deadlift and Rows. Do that till youre 20kg's heavier, then add in your "little shit"
The big 3 or 4 or 5 or whatever....it's not powerlifting, it's the basics of beginner program.

 

[Bazza20]

I think the poster is correct, to a degree.
Whenever a 6 foot 60kg kid comes in and starts with 2kg dumbells doing delt raises n shit because a dumb PT told him to.... I'd love to smack him over the head and point them to the squat rack and that bar on the floor....
Squats, Bench, Military Press, Deadlift and Rows. Do that till youre 20kg's heavier, then add in your "little shit"
The big 3 or 4 or 5 or whatever....it's not powerlifting, it's the basics of beginner program.

Agree but who cares what every 60kg kid is doing at the gym. They already know everything anyway and most are not going to listen. Let em do what they want and they might sort it out in the end.

 

[Goosey]

Agree but who cares what every 60kg kid is doing at the gym. They already know everything anyway and most are not going to listen anyway. Let em do what they want and they might sort it out in the end.

Oh so true.

We were all that skinny little 60kg, I'd back it in we all started the same way.

and why did we?

 

[Sydking]

im more then happy with my Bench, deadlift, Squat, MP and curls

Il add in leg extensions in between my sets too just becasue i can

Its done very well for me and im done my session in 40min 3 times a week.

Cant complain with that

 

[reubs]

This has blown way off topic haha, it had nothing to do with bodybuilding vs powerlifting, it was just me ranting especially to guys who are newish looking for strength and mass to stick to those real basic movements that give the most bang for ya buck, no need for all the little movements for quite a long time, big movements plus food and resr equals a lot of growth, been interesting seeing everyones opinion thanks to everyone who had a say!

 

[Rugby88]

Then there is the rest of us here, middle of the road, who do what we can, we know exercise biulds strength and flexibility, we cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

bodybuilding is full of lies, smoke and mirrors, a big component of this is drugs.

This is a very confusing post - I dont know why you connect Bodybuilding with steroids so much - is it because you can see their results through their body? What about a powerlifter who squats 1200lb's? You dont think they are smashing the drugs?

You will find alot of the time that strength athletes stay on drugs for longer periods of time/or just simply dont come off due to needing to consitently increase their strength for comp.

I love Powerlifting and have trained directly for it and used PLing movements in pretty much every aspect of my training for the last 10 years - but to think that Bodybuilding is full of lies, smoke and mirrors due to drug use - then you must not know much about the history of weightlifting and powerlifting....

You'll also notice that over the years, the focus in pro BBing is less on symmertry, shape and looks.

Why is that?

You will find over the last 5-6 years bodybuilding has gone back to the more pleasing physiques, better symmertry, shape etc...the likes of Heath, Rhoden, Jackson.

 

[Goosey]

This is a very confusing post - I dont know why you connect Bodybuilding with steroids so much - is it because you can see their results through their body? What about a powerlifter who squats 1200lb's? You dont think they are smashing the drugs?

You will find alot of the time that strength athletes stay on drugs for longer periods of time/or just simply dont come off due to needing to consitently increase their strength for comp.

I love Powerlifting and have trained directly for it and used PLing movements in pretty much every aspect of my training for the last 10 years - but to think that Bodybuilding is full of lies, smoke and mirrors due to drug use - then you must not know much about the history of weightlifting and powerlifting....



You will find over the last 5-6 years bodybuilding has gone back to the more pleasing physiques, better symmertry, shape etc...the likes of Heath, Rhoden, Jackson.

I think you like to be confused

 

[NightFallTech]

Oh so true.

We were all that skinny little 60kg, I'd back it in we all started the same way.

and why did we?

I don't think I was as light as 60kg at 14, let alone when I started lifting!

But I still started with curls...

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[Goosey]

I don't think I was as light as 60kg at 14, let alone when I started lifting!

But I still started with curls...

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Me too.

 

[Bazza20]

First gym session I can remember. Curls and pec dec for 2+ hours. Beach muscles is where its at.

 

[reubs]

This is a very confusing post - I dont know why you connect Bodybuilding with steroids so much - is it because you can see their results through their body? What about a powerlifter who squats 1200lb's? You dont think they are smashing the drugs?

You will find alot of the time that strength athletes stay on drugs for longer periods of time/or just simply dont come off due to needing to consitently increase their strength for comp.

I love Powerlifting and have trained directly for it and used PLing movements in pretty much every aspect of my training for the last 10 years - but to think that Bodybuilding is full of lies, smoke and mirrors due to drug use - then you must not know much about the history of weightlifting and powerlifting....



You will find over the last 5-6 years bodybuilding has gone back to the more pleasing physiques, better symmertry, shape etc...the likes of Heath, Rhoden, Jackson.

Oh hell yeah about strength athletes and anabolics, all the strongest elite guys I know jab test like crazy, still though most other people couldn't keep up even if they were on three times as much gear, Ive always laughed at people yelling he must be on steroids!! cos if they were on gear theyd still look like shit haha.

 

[Sticky]

Who are these elite guys you know?

 

[spartacus]

I was always interested in strength and sporting performance rather than mere muscle from a young age. Hence, bench, cleans and snatch were my early goals, probably swayed by track and field athletes constantly hanging shit on bb's, although one would later compete in bb.

For me, though, never really got that strong.

 

[jzpowahz]

We were all that skinny little 60kg, I'd back it in we all started the same way.

not me, fat 100kg shorty

Everybody want to be a bodybuilder but nobody wanna lift heavy ass weight!

 

[RyanF]

Didn't mean to bunch up any panties. yeah sure you can try and "sculpt" your muscles, but you needa get the muscle first!. chest flyes aint gonna get you bigger, tricep extensions cant do anything that dips and heavy pressing don't. this is why guys spin there wheels every year. Nearly every successful bodybuilder got strong as fuck on the basics first. http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&r..._BMNpDAkaGz74hGD52JMJBHw&ust=1383640709621481

Ahem.

"Sculpting" = build muscle + make it visible by reducing fat. Sculpting is hypertrophy and fat loss. You don't build muscle and then sculpt it. If you're going to sculpt your muscles you do it BY building them.

Nearly every bodybuilder does good squats, benches and pulls. This is true. Nearly every bodybuilder also does good curls and calf raises and whatever else they need to do to get their muscles growing in the right proportions. It might be true that triceps extensions don't do anything dips don't (since triceps extensions either keep a static shoulder or include concentric shoulder extension, while dips use concentric shoulder flexion, it actually isn't true, but let's pretend it is for argument's sake), but hey, maybe I need to build my triceps and I need to maintain my pecs and anterior deltoids in order to get the proportions I'm after. If that's the case, triceps extensions are a more suitable addition to the program. Even outside of such circumstances, there's nothing at all wrong with overloading a muscle group in isolation. In fact, it's very often the case that a big compound movement does a good job across several muscle groups, but one good isolation movement will do a much better job on one of those muscle groups.

If you had to choose between squats and leg extensions, you'd probably be right to choose squats. But if no one's forcing you to do one or the other, for bodybuilding purposes you'd probably be better off doing both.

BTW. Just so you know who's saying this, the only isolation exercises that are regularly in my program are calf raises, glute-ham raises, and some rehab stuff. 90% of my training is variations of squats, deadlifts, bench presses, overhead presses, pull ups and rows. But you could certainly have a much higher ratio of isolation work in your program than I do, and still have a good program. It's not the fact that Billy Gymrat does lots of bicep curls that keeps him skinny and weak, it's the fact his program as a whole -- the selection and integration of all the exercises he'll be doing, the progression for each, and his nutrition -- is a pile of crepe.

 

[Big Mick]

Ahem.

"Sculpting" = build muscle + make it visible by reducing fat. Sculpting is hypertrophy and fat loss. You don't build muscle and then sculpt it. If you're going to sculpt your muscles you do it BY building them.

Nearly every bodybuilder does good squats, benches and pulls. This is true. Nearly every bodybuilder also does good curls and calf raises and whatever else they need to do to get their muscles growing in the right proportions. It might be true that triceps extensions don't do anything dips don't (since triceps extensions either keep a static shoulder or include concentric shoulder extension, while dips use concentric shoulder flexion, it actually isn't true, but let's pretend it is for argument's sake), but hey, maybe I need to build my triceps and I need to maintain my pecs and anterior deltoids in order to get the proportions I'm after. If that's the case, triceps extensions are a more suitable addition to the program. Even outside of such circumstances, there's nothing at all wrong with overloading a muscle group in isolation. In fact, it's very often the case that a big compound movement does a good job across several muscle groups, but one good isolation movement will do a much better job on one of those muscle groups.

If you had to choose between squats and leg extensions, you'd probably be right to choose squats. But if no one's forcing you to do one or the other, for bodybuilding purposes you'd probably be better off doing both.

BTW. Just so you know who's saying this, the only isolation exercises that are regularly in my program are calf raises, glute-ham raises, and some rehab stuff. 90% of my training is variations of squats, deadlifts, bench presses, overhead presses, pull ups and rows. But you could certainly have a much higher ratio of isolation work in your program than I do, and still have a good program. It's not the fact that Billy Gymrat does lots of bicep curls that keeps him skinny and weak, it's the fact his program as a whole -- the selection and integration of all the exercises he'll be doing, the progression for each, and his nutrition -- is a pile of crepe.

You are 100% correct, but I think the OP is saying many people do just that, do all the little stuff and fail to do the important stuff, no one suggests not to do isolation exercises if you want to, but do the big stuff first as that is what will build your foundation.

Personally I mainly train Bench/Squat/Dead Lift/Press, I have been cutting back on isolation stuff lately, and have found no difference to be honest. I like doing some lat pulldowns, rows, preacher curls and tricep push downs, and thats about it, will change that up soon as well, these are called 'assistance exercises' and are not necessary but nice to add. If I don't feel like doing them I won't and I won't feel bad for it, as I ALWAYS do my main lifts as per my program (5/3/1 in this case). This last week I have had family visiting from interstate and staying over and it's been 37 plus degres in my gym, so I have done almost no assistance this past week, but still completed all my main lifts including some pb's this week as per my training template

For my next training cycle I will be dropping all the above assistance stuff and adding incline leg press, and calf raises as well as more ab work and probably concentrate on body weight stuff like dips, pull ups and push ups as assistance. again if I don't get to them no biggie, life will go on and the important stuff will be done

On the other hand I know a few people that will do nothing but the assistance stuff, and they are not getting any bigger or stronger, as a matter of fact they don't even look like they train at all, one guy in particular recons I am ruining my body by doing squats and dead lifts (he is a PT with his own gym/studio), and he recommends super sets of bicep curls twice a week, yet his arms are 1/2 the size of mine literally, and I hardly do any curls what so ever, may be 3 sets of 8-10 once or twice a week on average will be all my direct bicep work.

 

[RyanF]

You are 100% correct, but I think the OP is saying many people do just that, do all the little stuff and fail to do the important stuff, no one suggests not to do isolation exercises if you want to, but do the big stuff first as that is what will build your foundation.

Personally I mainly train Bench/Squat/Dead Lift/Press, I have been cutting back on isolation stuff lately, and have found no difference to be honest. I like doing some lat pulldowns, rows, preacher curls and tricep push downs, and thats about it, will change that up soon as well, these are called 'assistance exercises' and are not necessary but nice to add. If I don't feel like doing them I won't and I won't feel bad for it, as I ALWAYS do my main lifts as per my program (5/3/1 in this case). This last week I have had family visiting from interstate and staying over and it's been 37 plus degres in my gym, so I have done almost no assistance this past week, but still completed all my main lifts including some pb's this week as per my training template

For my next training cycle I will be dropping all the above assistance stuff and adding incline leg press, and calf raises as well as more ab work and probably concentrate on body weight stuff like dips, pull ups and push ups as assistance. again if I don't get to them no biggie, life will go on and the important stuff will be done

On the other hand I know a few people that will do nothing but the assistance stuff, and they are not getting any bigger or stronger, as a matter of fact they don't even look like they train at all, one guy in particular recons I am ruining my body by doing squats and dead lifts (he is a PT with his own gym/studio), and he recommends super sets of bicep curls twice a week, yet his arms are 1/2 the size of mine literally, and I hardly do any curls what so ever, may be 3 sets of 8-10 once or twice a week on average will be all my direct bicep work.

Mmm, true. Maybe I'm just taking all my facepalming from Riptards over at bb.com out on OP.

 

[Goosey]

Here is something interesting and to think about, I'll try to explain it the best way I can.

Firstly I now believe Machines and the barbell are as good as each other for growth, although the barbell has limitations.

*Isolation exercises are equally important to the above and in some cases critical additions to good well rounded templates.

*self evident truth...Force is what triggers the muscle building process.

The argument is compound exercises work your body as one, the stability under a bar not only work the prime movers, but the synergist groups also, machines don't.

So, if squatting one legged on a Swiss ball is at one end or extreme end of that "stability" spectrum the machines will be or should be at the other, conventional barbell exercises like the squat and such, would be in the middle, Olympic lifts further up the spectrum.

So thinking like this, splitting exercise into components which is really what we do and should do, then machines should be used must be used, to be able to apply as much force as safely possible to the muscle/s we are trying to stimulate.

We should jack-off to the little shit?
Yes.

 

[RyanF]

Here is something interesting and to think about, I'll try to explain it the best way I can.

Firstly I now believe Machines and the barbell are as good as each other for growth, although the barbell has limitations.

*Isolation exercises are equally important to the above and in some cases critical additions to good well rounded templates.

*self evident truth...Force is what triggers the muscle building process.

The argument is compound exercises work your body as one, the stability under a bar not only work the prime movers, but the synergist groups also, machines don't.

So, if squatting one legged on a Swiss ball is at one end or extreme end of that "stability" spectrum the machines will be or should be at the other, conventional barbell exercises like the squat and such, would be in the middle, Olympic lifts further up the spectrum.

So thinking like this, splitting exercise into components which is really what we do and should do, then machines should be used must be used, to be able to apply as much force as safely possible to the muscle/s we are trying to stimulate.

We should jack-off to the little shit?
Yes.

I agree with this post. Gotta get that overload. While squats and deadlifts are good in that they apply a high amount of force (causing high amounts of overload) across large areas of the body, isolation exercises and -gasp- machine exercises often remove weak links, and with weak links (such as stability, or lack thereof) removed, the force (and subsequent overload) put on a muscle becomes limited by that actual muscle, rather than by something else.

 

[Goosey]

I agree with this post. Gotta get that overload. While squats and deadlifts are good in that they apply a high amount of force (causing high amounts of overload) across large areas of the body, isolation exercises and -gasp- machine exercises often remove weak links, and with weak links (such as stability, or lack thereof) removed, the force (and subsequent overload) put on a muscle becomes limited by that actual muscle, rather than by something else.

Yeah, I suppose what I'm saying is, and using the squat as an example: is fundementally a leg exercise, but was happens under the bar is spectacular in terms of stimulating the endocrine system, and that it's referring to the collection of cells, glands and tissue that seccrete hormones directly into the bloodstream.

A good leg-press applys direct contant force to the muscles of the thigh and hip.

A good leg extension applies direct force to the quad's

Having or using those three would be good.

Then, a fullbody workout will benefit.

Use the same principal for barbell curls, chin-ups and using preacher type curls for the bicep.

But the squat is key to all this.