Strength training question/help (semi long read)

[ryan]

Hello all,
First time posting so yeah.

Anyway, just a small bit of background. I started weight training about three months ago and put on about 5 kg since then. I'm now at 69 kg. (I was doing weights before this however I was kind of screwing around and not taking it seriously). During that time I was doing 3x12, working my chest, back and bis/tris one day and legs/shoulders and abs the next.

I've recently been told by a PT that I should drop 3x12 and start doing 4x6 to build strength then switch back to 3x12 after six weeks. With my 4x6, I have to split my workout into four days instead of two and I now do chest/bi one day, shoulders/abs the next, back/tri and then legs/abs on the last day.

I do a total of 4 different workouts on my chest/back/shoulders/legs and abs (I break this down into two days, 2 exercises with shoulders and the other two with my legs) and two different exercises for my bis and tris. So I do a total of ~22-24 sets per session.

Also, my goal is to put on more weight, stopping at 72-74 kg and I', 5'9. Also I am aware that doing fewer reps means I should greatly increase the weights which I am doing.

My question is, am I doing too many sets? Is working out each major body part once a week enough? And should I increase my weight each session? Also, will doing 4x6 increase my muscle mass (even by a little)?

Oh yeah, I don't use supplements if that helps or anything.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Ryan.

 

[lkt004]

I have put on 10 kilos since the start of July, doing nothing but squat-deadlift-bench and variants of these 3-4 days per week.

Keep it simple, look at the beginners program thread in this section.

 

[Bench Polkov]

More frequency and volume.

Do a full-body routine 3x per week.

Eg.
Squat 5x10
Bench/Mil Press (alternate each session) 3x10
SLDL 3x10
Row 3x10
Dips superset with Chins 3 sets each.

 

[McKwl]

I have put on 10 kilos since the start of July, doing nothing but squat-deadlift-bench and variants of these 3-4 days per week.

That's definitely to the point! Would you mind posting the details of the program? Also, what program did you use as a beginner, if not something like that?

For me, it's been a full body routine, with squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, rows and pullups that has done me the most good so far. I also throw in some curls and abs, but to be honest, I'm not sure how much they help, lol. Doesn't seem to hurt anyway.


edit: My strength has gone way up already, doing that, and lots of people have commented on how different I look now. As in, "big", "strong", etc. (I wasn't before). It's only going to be more so, as I progress.

 

[wingman]

Hello all,
First time posting so yeah.

Anyway, just a small bit of background. I started weight training about three months ago and put on about 5 kg since then. I'm now at 69 kg. (I was doing weights before this however I was kind of screwing around and not taking it seriously). During that time I was doing 3x12, working my chest, back and bis/tris one day and legs/shoulders and abs the next.

I've recently been told by a PT that I should drop 3x12 and start doing 4x6 to build strength then switch back to 3x12 after six weeks. With my 4x6, I have to split my workout into four days instead of two and I now do chest/bi one day, shoulders/abs the next, back/tri and then legs/abs on the last day.

I do a total of 4 different workouts on my chest/back/shoulders/legs and abs (I break this down into two days, 2 exercises with shoulders and the other two with my legs) and two different exercises for my bis and tris. So I do a total of ~22-24 sets per session.

Also, my goal is to put on more weight, stopping at 72-74 kg and I', 5'9. Also I am aware that doing fewer reps means I should greatly increase the weights which I am doing.

My question is, am I doing too many sets? Is working out each major body part once a week enough? And should I increase my weight each session? Also, will doing 4x6 increase my muscle mass (even by a little)?

Oh yeah, I don't use supplements if that helps or anything.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Ryan.

http://ausbb.com/strength-training-power-lifting/9460-beginners-program.html

Run that for 3 months, starting very low with your weights and increasing gradually then report back then.

 

[Semillon]

http://ausbb.com/strength-training-power-lifting/9460-beginners-program.html

Run that for 3 months, starting very low with your weights and increasing gradually then report back then.

^ this, except probably 3-6 months, depending on how aggressively you attack it and how much protein you eat. On that subject, minimum 150g of protein every day and 3000+ calories my man.

Or do starting strength - including the proscribed diet.

Which ever one appeals the most is probably the best program for you.

Given you are really light now, 3500-4000 calories is probably the order of the day as soon as the weights start to challenge you on whichever beginner strength program you choose.

I wish I had realised this when I started but the amount of protein you eat and the total number of calories consumed over the week is much more important than which program you choose or how many sets/reps you perform. That being said, selecting a program based around squat/deadlift/bench/press which includes squatting 3 times per week will lead to faster strength gains for you than any split program.

 

[lkt004]

4000 calories is way too much with that training and a novice. Eating that much will turn him off. 2-2500 with 300g of protein is more than enough.

 

[Swervyn-Ervyn]

I have put on 10 kilos since the start of July, doing nothing but squat-deadlift-bench and variants of these 3-4 days per week.

Keep it simple, look at the beginners program thread in this section.

I love reading things like this!!!!
Well done man that's awesome...
I only do squat dead bench ohp + variants, and a few dips and chins to finish

 

[Semillon]

4000 calories is way too much with that training and a novice. Eating that much will turn him off. 2-2500 with 300g of protein is more than enough.

Note I said 3000 now, 4000 once shit gets hard.

He is 5"9' and under 70kg... serious measures need to be taken

 

[judgey]

I think if you want to bulk rather than dirty bulk, I would start at your maintenance calories (pick 2500-2600 as a starting point), then progressively add 200-250 calories each time your gains stall. That gives you plenty of room to move upwards in calories.

Or you could just start eating huge amounts, but that's a matter for you.

 

[wingman]

2500 would be cutting lol

 

[Semillon]

2500 would be cutting lol

^ this.

 

[RyanF]

Note I said 3000 now, 4000 once shit gets hard.

He is 5"9' and under 70kg... serious measures need to be taken

This prescription is exactly how I went from being skinny to being skinny fat in a bid to get stronger. Adding kilos onto the scale is worthless if a good portion of those kilos aren't muscle. If you're gaining more than about 0.5kg/wk, the extra weight is almost always going to be fat. If training's getting hard and you're stalling (or coming close to it) left, right and centre, but you're still gaining weight, you don't need more calories. Better macros, better micros, better technique, possibly a deload, and if all of that doesn't work, then it's probably mental or your body would respond better to some change in programming. More calories are only needed if your bodyweight is stalling.

 

[lkt004]

at 69kg, he just needs to eat, adding in complex diets and counting calories is adding unnecessary complexity.

eggs and toast at breakfast, maybe some milk and fruit

3*200g chicken meals + veg

1 200g tuna meal + veg + pasta

Cottage cheese before bed.

Snack on nuts and dried fruit during the day, do the routine Freako posted on the first page.

That's as simple as it can get, and will work.

 

[ryan]

Hey guys,
Thanks for the replies and advice.

*Warning long read, I apologise in advance*

Firstly, I try to eat as much as I can. My eating schedule is:
Cereal with milk and 4 fried eggs for breakfast
An apple and a muesli bar (normally a nutri-grain bar) of some sort for a snack
Rice with tuna for lunch
A banana and a museli bar before my workout
A banana and some yogurt after my workout
Either stir-fry with veges with chicken/Pasta with spinach and some sort of meat/Steak with veges for dinner
Yogurt, a pear and a glass of milk after dinner or before I go to sleep

Secondly, regarding the beginner's workout program linked earlier in the thread. I've had a look at that and I would like to start doing that after my current program. I'd like to stick to what I am doing at the moment.

Thirdly, I would like some advice on what I am currently doing. My current program that I devised is:
(Please note all of the following is 4 sets, 6 reps APART from my ab workouts which are 3x12)

Monday: (total of 24 sets, working chest and biceps)
DB bench press
Incline DB bench press
Incline DB chest fly
BB bench press
Bicep curls
Seated incline bicep curls

Tuesday: (total of 22 sets, working shoulders and abs)
DB shoulder press
DB frontal raise
DB lateral raise
BB upright row
Bicycle crunch
Decline crunch

Wednesday: cardio day

Thursday: (total of 24 sets, working back and triceps)
Chin up
Lat pull down
Seated row
One arm DB row
Triceps rope pull down
Seated triceps

Friday: (total of 22 sets, working legs and abs)
Leg press
BB squats
Calf raise
DB lunges
Plank
Seated twist

My concern is that I am only working each muscle group once per week and I am wondering if doing so will hinder my results and my workout.

If so, would this be a better workout program. The alternative is:

Monday: (total of 24 sets, working chest, back, biceps and triceps)
DB bench press
Incline DB chest fly
Chin up
Lat pull down
DB bicep curl
Triceps rope pull down

Tuesday: (total of 22 sets, working shoulders, legs and abs)
DB shoulder press
DB frontal raise
Leg press
DB lunges
Bicycle crunch
Plank

Wednesday: cardio day

Thursday: (total of 24 sets, working chest, back, biceps and triceps)
Incline DB bench press
BB bench press
Seated row
DB one arm row
Seated incline bicep curl
Seated triceps

Friday: (total of 22 sets, working legs, shoulders and abs)
DB lateral raise
BB upright row
BB squats
Calf raise
Decline crunch
Seated twist

The second program will allow me to work each muscle group twice per week, instead of one however the sets I do on each muscle group each day is decreased. All the workouts are the same, I just changed it so I can workout each muscle group twice a week, rather than once.

So my question is which is better to build strength? Working on one muscle group each week and doing 16 sets or working out a muscle group twice per week but doing 8 sets. I hope this makes sense and you understand what I'm yapping on about.

Thanks heaps.

 

[wingman]

Hey guys,
Thanks for the replies and advice.

*Warning long read, I apologise in advance*

Firstly, I try to eat as much as I can. My eating schedule is:
Cereal with milk and 4 fried eggs for breakfast
An apple and a muesli bar (normally a nutri-grain bar) of some sort for a snack
Rice with tuna for lunch
A banana and a museli bar before my workout
A banana and some yogurt after my workout
Either stir-fry with veges with chicken/Pasta with spinach and some sort of meat/Steak with veges for dinner
Yogurt, a pear and a glass of milk after dinner or before I go to sleep

Secondly, regarding the beginner's workout program linked earlier in the thread. I've had a look at that and I would like to start doing that after my current program. I'd like to stick to what I am doing at the moment.

Thirdly, I would like some advice on what I am currently doing. My current program that I devised is:
(Please note all of the following is 4 sets, 6 reps APART from my ab workouts which are 3x12)

Monday: (total of 24 sets, working chest and biceps)
DB bench press
Incline DB bench press
Incline DB chest fly
BB bench press
Bicep curls
Seated incline bicep curls

Tuesday: (total of 22 sets, working shoulders and abs)
DB shoulder press
DB frontal raise
DB lateral raise
BB upright row
Bicycle crunch
Decline crunch

Wednesday: cardio day

Thursday: (total of 24 sets, working back and triceps)
Chin up
Lat pull down
Seated row
One arm DB row
Triceps rope pull down
Seated triceps

Friday: (total of 22 sets, working legs and abs)
Leg press
BB squats
Calf raise
DB lunges
Plank
Seated twist

My concern is that I am only working each muscle group once per week and I am wondering if doing so will hinder my results and my workout.

If so, would this be a better workout program. The alternative is:

Monday: (total of 24 sets, working chest, back, biceps and triceps)
DB bench press
Incline DB chest fly
Chin up
Lat pull down
DB bicep curl
Triceps rope pull down

Tuesday: (total of 22 sets, working shoulders, legs and abs)
DB shoulder press
DB frontal raise
Leg press
DB lunges
Bicycle crunch
Plank

Wednesday: cardio day

Thursday: (total of 24 sets, working chest, back, biceps and triceps)
Incline DB bench press
BB bench press
Seated row
DB one arm row
Seated incline bicep curl
Seated triceps

Friday: (total of 22 sets, working legs, shoulders and abs)
DB lateral raise
BB upright row
BB squats
Calf raise
Decline crunch
Seated twist

The second program will allow me to work each muscle group twice per week, instead of one however the sets I do on each muscle group each day is decreased. All the workouts are the same, I just changed it so I can workout each muscle group twice a week, rather than once.

So my question is which is better to build strength? Working on one muscle group each week and doing 16 sets or working out a muscle group twice per week but doing 8 sets. I hope this makes sense and you understand what I'm yapping on about.

Thanks heaps.

whoa, settle the fuck down cowboy.

Do the program either I linked in my previous post or the one El Freako described earlier in this thread. Did a big franchise gym write you that program? PT's deliberately write you complex ones for 2 reasons
1) Need their help for longer so they get paid more
2) Makes them look smarter cuz they've come up with something so "great".

Truth is, if you squatted 2 or 3 times a week for 3 months, you'd be on the road to strong and understanding more about what works and doesnt work for you and we can re-visit your goals/questions then.

Go and find my journal on these forums - it might be of some use to you - i vomited from squatting an empty barbell when i began, thats how out of shape I was. Hopefully it proves that all you have to do is turn up and lift 2.5kg more than last time you turned up - its seriously this simple.

 

[McKwl]

Do the program either I linked in my previous post or the one El Freako described earlier in this thread. Did a big franchise gym write you that program? PT's deliberately write you complex ones for 2 reasons
1) Need their help for longer so they get paid more
2) Makes them look smarter cuz they've come up with something so "great".

Truth is, if you squatted 2 or 3 times a week for 3 months, you'd be on the road to strong and understanding more about what works and doesnt work for you and we can re-visit your goals/questions then.

Go and find my journal on these forums - it might be of some use to you - i vomited from squatting an empty barbell when i began, thats how out of shape I was. Hopefully it proves that all you have to do is turn up and lift 2.5kg more than last time you turned up - its seriously this simple.

Yep. Take this advice to heart, OP. And hey, there's a very good reason why all the advice has been pretty much the same throughout this thread.

I know where you're at - I fucked around for a while, not knowing what the hell I was doing. Could have been something similar to that "program" you were given, for all I can remember. My results were no surprise anyway, with the benefit of hindsight: shitful.

And then I started a full body compound lifts-based program, and whadayaknow, I am A LOT bigger and stronger than I've ever been in my life, after just a few months or so. Can't wait to see what I'm capable of, after a few years of this stuff!

tl;dr: Go for one of those awesome hardcore full body routines, and stick with the thing. It'll be hard work, yes, but worth every rep. That 5x10, 3x10 (etc.) one posted upthread looks great. But either way.

 

[RyanF]

Hey guys,
Firstly, I try to eat as much as I can. My eating schedule is:
Cereal with milk and 4 fried eggs for breakfast
An apple and a muesli bar (normally a nutri-grain bar) of some sort for a snack and a glass of milk
Rice with tuna for lunch and a glass of milk
A banana and a museli bar before my workout and a glass of milk
A banana and some yogurt after my workout and a glass of milk
Either stir-fry with veges with chicken/Pasta with spinach and some sort of meat/Steak with veges for dinner and a glass of milk
Yogurt, a pear and a glass of milk after dinner or before I go to sleep

I fixed your diet.

 

[Semillon]

I fixed your diet.

Well played sir.

One could replace "and a glass of milk" with "and a cheeseburger" for extra goodness.

 

[judgey]

Having been about 6" and 62kg when I started, I can confidently say that 2500 calories is not a 'cut'. I maintained 81.5 for a month recently at 2400-2600 calories...

People significantly overestimate how many calories they need and get fat, why not start at a healthy medium and then give yourself room to move up calories-wise. If you really want to go down the milk path, eat the same and just add an extra glass of milk per day every 2 weeks.

Unless it's different when you are training for strength..