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Steroids and strength gain

How do you put a number on how much it increases your lifts? Do you go from the day you start to your next max - i.e 100kg max before cycle and then 130kg afterwards? Do you calculate it from doing the same training program on and off and see what the results are? If your training, eating etc correctly you will always be progressing in some form (natural or not) - its very hard to say yes I got X% out of these drugs....

I dont believe that athletes that [MENTION=6618]spartacus[/MENTION]; have "spoken" to have given him an X% - of course you might have a rough idea - "I dunno 10%" but its nearly impossible to say yep this is the spot on % I got...

Honestly you'll prob get maybe 10%-15% from PED's to being natural....but again its nearly impossible to say, everyone is different, depends on training age etc etc....
 
Genics said:
problem with this is the natural athletes you are comparing with may/probably are not natural at all
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Thats the other thing - there would be a NUMBER of guys who claim to be natural who arnt even natural at all - so that again puts another level of wtf on top of it. I dont have a problem with guys who do this because alot do it due to work, life etc reasons so each to their own....this is where alot of fads branch from aswell - different forms of dieting etc they see a handful of guys having great results and either they are genetic freaks that could do anything and still get results or they claim the natural card....
 
Honestly you'll prob get maybe 10%-15% from PED's to being natural....but again its nearly impossible to say, everyone is different, depends on training age etc etc....
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Of course it may vary, but I have never heard an elite athlete ever mention less than 15%. who do you think I learn from, beginners? I actually ask champion athletes who have a fair idea about how to train and have done the hard yards.

Four of them (powerlifters) have held Australian records, and two of them still do.

But, even with the problem of knowing what each person gets, some people are still interested in such a discussion.

What would you rather, just ignore the advantage of drugs.

Of course, the advantage would have to be quantified after one or two early cycles. This is logical. Arnold is said to have started taking gear early. Obviously, most of his gains by the time he was a Mr Olympia was from hard work, genetics and training.

I think East German article speaks for itself. One cycle, and shot put distance went up 10%. This is consistent with what champion Aust throwers have told me. Again, there may be some variation in improvements made.
 
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spartacus said:
Of course it may vary, but I have never heard an elite athlete ever mention less than 15%. who do you think I learn from, beginners? I actually ask champion athletes who have a fair idea about how to train and have done the hard yards.

Four of them (powerlifters) have held Australian records, and two of them still do.

But, even with the problem of knowing what each person gets, some people are still interested in such a discussion.

What would you rather, just ignore the advantage of drugs.

Of course, the advantage would have to be quantified after one or two early cycles. This is logical. Arnold is said to have started taking gear early. Obviously, most of his gains by the time he was a Mr Olympia was from hard work, genetics and training.

I think East German article speaks for itself. One cycle, and shot put distance went up 10%. This is consistent with what champion Aust throwers have told me.
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Not having a go but have elite athletes in tested sports spoken to you openly about their drug use? i.e the Aus throwers? Are you close friends?

I just find it fairly surprising an athlete who could be professional and/or go to say the Olympics talk openly about drug use while they are still competing in the sport.

There is no denying that steroids will help an athlete there are just so many other factors to take into account to ever come up with set results.
 
yes, over the years, I have known a lot of champion athletes quite well.

I cant speak for all, but I can speak for about 20-30 or so Australian representatives or champions. I don't know nay current Ayst reps, beyond powerlifters.

Of powerlifters, when I have asked, most have been quite open and friendly about it.

I am also not the type that bullshits, but you can only take my word.
 
spartacus said:
yes, over the years, I have known a lot of champion athletes quite well.

I cant speak for all, but I can speak for about 20-30 or so Australian representatives or champions. I don't know nay current Ayst reps, beyond powerlifters.

Of powerlifters, when I have asked, most have been quite open and friendly about it.

I am also not the type that bullshits, but you can only take my word.
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What sports are we talking where athletes have admitted to PED's use? while they have still be competing/playing in the sport?

Besides PLing..
 
cycling, sprinting, throwing, powerlifting and weightlifting.

I think you should take note of actual studies, like one I presented.

I find it surprising that you know no one on gear. I am sure they would tell you similar.
 
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spartacus said:
cycling, sprinting, throwing, powerlifting and weightlifting.

I think with you should take note of actual studies, like one I presented.

I find it surprising that you know no one on gear. I am sure they would tell you similar.
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When did I mention that I know no1 on gear? I admit I dont know any elite athletes on gear (that I know of - i.e they have not told me) - I find it surprising an athlete would risk their career to tell you - must of been very close.
 
why does anyone ever tell anyone anything; they obviously trust them.

Yes, I have advised athletes in past, as I have learned from them.

a few were still competing in aths at the highest levels, but we were mates at time.

as for bbs, we had a group of us in late 1980s and early 1990s that dabbled for first time, five of my mates won national titles (weight classes at least). And, yes, nosy me noted all the improvement they made. At least in terms of bench press, none of us improved less than around 15% after first decent cycle and a few got around 20%.
 
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spartacus said:
why does anyone ever tell anyone anything; they obviously trust them.

Yes, I have advised athletes in past, as I have learned from them.

a few were still competing in aths at the highest levels, but we were mates at time.
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Surprising - I guess its a little different when you are an elite athlete and a public figure there are afew more factors at play.... I would never risk my career - as much as I trusted someone....
 
geez, if you don't know, just say so, don't pretend you know :D (and then google...)

endurance is a given, as is strength :p

skill? balance? how can they be affected by steroids?
 
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