Skinnyfat - bulk or lean muscle gain?

[hugoti]

Guys,
I'm a little confused to which caloric intake I should be looking at (when using calculators). I'm skinnyfat (177cm @ 75kgs with 22% BF). Calculators show I should take 4000+ calories for bulking or 2600 calories for lean muscle gain. I'm currently taking 2600 calories which is just enough for me.

I read that bulking calculators only apply for those with single digit BF %. So am I on the correct path then?

 

[0ni]

Train at least 5 days a week. You're on the fat size but also skinny, makes things hard for sure.
Stick to whole, natural foods. No grains or dairy, they are pretty fattening and will bloat you which is not what you want

Eat your fill on lean meats, vegetables, starches and rice. If you follow this diet, keep protein as high as possible (IE eat as much lean meat as you can then follow up with other stuff) and train really hard keeping a quick pace you'll get very good results indeed. I don't think you should count calories at the moment, as a novice it's too hard to gauge so you're better off feeling it out. Keeping things isocaloric in the beginning is a good start for sure, 2600kcal. But if you're stuffing yourself eating naturally then eat less and if you're hungry then eat more! Especially in the beginning.

 

[Felixflex]

It's best to get into a routine of working out regularly and then work on your diet. Calculators are rubbish it's best to track how much your eating and adjust accordingly.

 

[Bazza20]

Grains and dairy are fine.

 

[morgan000]

Agree with Bazza20, grains and dairy is fine. I lost over 10 kg on a diet with some grains and plenty of milk, yoghurt and so on. Even have milk with protein shakes.

 

[0ni]

Good luck getting fat eating lean meats and not eating grains and dairy though

 

[Jungnaut]

Good luck going to the toilet without getting any fibre into your system! Bring bolt cutters so you can snap it off.

 

[0ni]

Not sure how you took no grains and dairy to mean no fibre, but whatever

 

[Goosey]

Working hard in the gym, is the key here.

Whether it is 2, 3 or 5 times a week, is up to you, in terms of how well you recover between workouts.

I guarantee your workouts are half arsed at best.

 

[chocchillimango]

Good luck getting fat eating lean meats and not eating grains and dairy though

eating too much makes you fat, not grains and dairy.

 

[judgey]

eating too much makes you fat, not grains and dairy.

That is his point exactly.

 

[0ni]

eating too much makes you fat, not grains and dairy.

Correct, but that misses the point entirely
I don't know why I have to spell this out so much
You need to eat a lot in this position but not too much. You need to develop the ability to eat food. If you can't figure out why processed grains and dairy, sugars etc are a poor choice then you have little hope.

People have such a problem with eating clean on this forum, it's very funny. Good luck overeating if you do not eat these foods, you'll grow very rapidly with little fat gain. If you want to cheat then fine, cheat but you're just kidding yourself. Once a week is going to be fine for many people but even myself I have started limiting this to once every 10 days and cutting out all dairy and sugars on these cheats.

 

[Bazza20]

Correct, but that misses the point entirely

No it doesn't.

 

[chocchillimango]

No it doesn't.

thank you

Yeah, @0ni; I do know a "little bit" about having to get used to eating more
Probably more than most given I have almost tripled my kcal intake in the past 18 months or less.

Eating a modest surplus and training hard and consistently is the foundation to success in this instance.
For a newb, it's actually possible to lose a bit of fat while gaining muscle too ... although obviously the ability to do so declines later.

There is no magic combo of foods.

Edit: correction .. yes there is. Bacon, maple, banana and peanut butter is magical.

 

[0ni]

For sure, I just think for a guy that is fat with no muscle, there are much better choices than calorific wonders such as milk, cream, cheese, flour etc etc

For magical combos it's the epic. epic mixture of high and low glycemic carbs and saturated fat that is flapjack

 

[Bazza20]

Correct, but that misses the point entirely
I don't know why I have to spell this out so much
You need to eat a lot in this position but not too much. You need to develop the ability to eat food. If you can't figure out why processed grains and dairy, sugars etc are a poor choice then you have little hope.

People have such a problem with eating clean on this forum, it's very funny. Good luck overeating if you do not eat these foods, you'll grow very rapidly with little fat gain. If you want to cheat then fine, cheat but you're just kidding yourself. Once a week is going to be fine for many people but even myself I have started limiting this to once every 10 days and cutting out all dairy and sugars on these cheats.

This is because you have the appetite of a little bird. If you have a good appetite you can easily overeat these foods.

I got to my fattest point eating a clean keto style diet you would be proud off, didn't cheat at all, stopped drinking, 6-8 meals a day. Didn't stop fat gain because I was easily able to over eat the calories.

 

[0ni]

thank you

Yeah, @0ni; I do know a "little bit" about having to get used to eating more
Probably more than most given I have almost tripled my kcal intake in the past 18 months or less.

Eating a modest surplus and training hard and consistently is the foundation to success in this instance.
For a newb, it's actually possible to lose a bit of fat while gaining muscle too ... although obviously the ability to do so declines later.

There is no magic combo of foods.

Edit: correction .. yes there is. Bacon, maple, banana and peanut butter is magical.

I think to an extent as well Viv, you overestimate just how "unhealthy" your diet is.
I believe you started from pretty skinny as well, when you're fat with no muscle mass you can get away with far less. If you posted up your macros and calories it would most likely support what I am saying. I think taking your body weight in pounds and eating that in grams of fat a day with double this in carbs would be very, very bad.

You're very right, small surplus and hard training. This fella will be used to eating whatever though, 250g of camembert is hardly a snack lol, goes down very easy and won't fill you up. I just think you're better off getting those 750kcal from a half chicken- and you're getting more protein and far superior nutrient profile to boot

You only have so many calories you can eat... make them count imo

 

[hugoti]

Interesting comments here.

Has anyone got experience with muscle chef type of companies that deliver prepacked meals to your door? There's one that does deliveries to Perth (not sure if I can name companies in here). Are they worthwhile whilst you are learning about nutrition?

Prices seems reasonable given the cost of shopping these days.

 

[0ni]

Interesting comments here.

Has anyone got experience with muscle chef type of companies that deliver prepacked meals to your door? There's one that does deliveries to Perth (not sure if I can name companies in here). Are they worthwhile whilst you are learning about nutrition?

Prices seems reasonable given the cost of shopping these days.

I know a few guys that do this, they are pretty healthy. Worse ways to eat for sure

 

[chocchillimango]

I think to an extent as well Viv, you overestimate just how "unhealthy" your diet is.

I can't imagine ever claiming that my diet is unhealthy. I eat a very healthy diet for the most part. I don't eat fast foods and a lot of other junk because a) I don't like it and b) it makes me feel sick.

I believe you started from pretty skinny as well, when you're fat with no muscle mass you can get away with far less. If you posted up your macros and calories it would most likely support what I am saying. I think taking your body weight in pounds and eating that in grams of fat a day with double this in carbs would be very, very bad.

You're very right, small surplus and hard training. This fella will be used to eating whatever though, 250g of camembert is hardly a snack lol, goes down very easy and won't fill you up. I just think you're better off getting those 750kcal from a half chicken- and you're getting more protein and far superior nutrient profile to boot

You only have so many calories you can eat... make them count imo

I'm still pretty skinny but much more solid than I used to be
If my macros had high fats and double the carbs, I'd have no room for bloody protein, my friend. Add in my protein and my kcals pole vault way over my requirements for a modest surplus.

i started out with my lean mass well below normal, healthy levels.
Textbook, real skinny fat. Not a lot of body fat. Just scarily low lean mass levels. Years of starvation will do that to you, along with devastating your bone mass etc. etc. I've added muscle and bone mass over the last 18 months.

I agree totally with the idea that one should make the most of the kcals in every day.
But so long as you meet your macro requirements each day, there is ample room to enjoy grains and dairy. In fact, if you are having trouble eating enough, they are great as you can get some easily digested kcals from them.
i do, as do many others, with no detrimental impact on their progress (on the contrary).

your macros and daily quota for overall kcals is the key - and that includes making sure you meet your requirements for dietary fibre and micronutrients etc.