Reverse Hyper

[Brick]

Anyone used one?

What were your thoughts, Louie Simmons claims they have cured his and other lifters back problems. Aside from rehab had any carryover to the lifts, mechanics don't look that different to a good morning.

 

[Sumo]

Use one 3 times a week

I have found it gives a good carryover to the squat and deadlift - nothing spectacular but it all helps.

The best thing I have found it for is rehab and prehab/recovery. It has really helped my back after dislocating some vertebrae (injury from years ago) and definitely helps recovery from heavy squatting and deadliftiing which in turn helps prevent injury.

If you can get access to one definitely use one whenever you can. Make sure you use it properly though as most people do it incorrectly and don't get the full benefit.

 

[Goosey]

Loading on the spine is the difference

 

[Goosey]

This is the machine that has saved my wife's back

While this bloke explains the way it isolates the lumber it also gives one the clue on which exercise is possibly the better to make more inroad into working the smaller muscles in the lumbar area.

It doesn't take much to fatigue the muscles on this machine

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z-FyeG7pqY&feature=youtube_gdata_playe]MedX Lumbar Extension Machine - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Brick]

This is the machine that has saved my wife's back

While this bloke explains the way it isolates the lumber it also gives one the clue on which exercise is possibly the better to make more inroad into working the smaller muscles in the lumbar area.

It doesn't take much to fatigue the muscles on this machine

Thanks andy, I have pretty severe protrusions on discs between l4/5/s1. Have learned to sorta work around them. It is odd how some exercise aggrevate and some don't. In my case I find stiffleg deadlifts excellent for rehab however good mornings are all sorts of wrong.

I think the difference in different peoples response to certain exercise may have to do with where on disc the protrusion is and how it responds to certain levels of extension &/or contraction. Spose it is a topic for the injury thread.

Would consider buying a reverse hyper if it meant I could nurse a couple more years out of the ol' back before finally getting carved up.

 

[Brick]

Use one 3 times a week

I have found it gives a good carryover to the squat and deadlift - nothing spectacular but it all helps.

The best thing I have found it for is rehab and prehab/recovery. It has really helped my back after dislocating some vertebrae (injury from years ago) and definitely helps recovery from heavy squatting and deadliftiing which in turn helps prevent injury.

If you can get access to one definitely use one whenever you can. Make sure you use it properly though as most people do it incorrectly and don't get the full benefit.

Thanks sumo this is the kind of feedback I need. Looking for exercises to help nurse some back injuries. Stuff to help speed along the rehab when it all falls apart, which is a couple times a year.

 

[Goosey]

No wukkas

I would never recommend GM's on the basis that there is direct loading on the back and most of the work is done by the glute and hamstring.

 

[Sumo]

Thanks sumo this is the kind of feedback I need. Looking for exercises to help nurse some back injuries. Stuff to help speed along the rehab when it all falls apart, which is a couple times a year.

No worries mate - the reverse hyper (without trying to sound like an advert) has made a huge difference to me. They are pretty expensive though.

 

[Brick]

No worries mate - the reverse hyper (without trying to sound like an advert) has made a huge difference to me. They are pretty expensive though.

Everything I have read on the web says it is excellent. Just wanted to hear something from real people, make sure it wasn't all just westside marketing. Definitely don't mind spending money on something that works.

 

[strong enough?]

If all you've found is positive comments on reverse hypers, you haven't looked hard enough. Its pretty controversial.

There are quite a few out there that a reverse hyper is very high risk for the reward when it comes to back rehab. The problem is the degree of loaded sheer force you subject to your spine under flexion. Now, for some people, this might actually help if they have compression under extension, ie effectively neutralises the position of the spine and helps relieve compression. This would why so many people have found it has helped. But depending on your injury, it could make it worse. This is why it is high risk vs reward. It's also a very expensive piece of equipment with little other use.

FWIW...I fixed my back with hip flexor stretching, bird dogs, planks and glute bridges. All bodyweight, free, and virtually risk free. I am now moving up to barbell hip thrusts to take my glutes to the next level.

The other argument is that it goes against the McGill school of thought on back injuries, which is the prevailing scientific view at the moment. McGill's research says that we have a limited number flexion/extensions in our spinal columns in our life before our discs degrade. For this reason, he advocates training the supportive muscles of the spine isometrically - ie planks, bird-dogs etc, and to avoid sheering flexion movements, eg reverse hypers and crunches.

Here's a balanced perspective from someone who is actually a Louie Simmons advocate: Re-Building the Reverse Hyper | Robertson Training Systems

 

[Brick]

The other argument is that it goes against the McGill school of thought on back injuries, which is the prevailing scientific view at the moment. McGill's research says that we have a limited number flexion/extensions in our spinal columns in our life before our discs degrade. For this reason, he advocates training the supportive muscles of the spine isometrically - ie planks, bird-dogs etc, and to avoid sheering flexion movements, eg reverse hypers and crunches.

Here's a balanced perspective from someone who is actually a Louie Simmons advocate: Re-Building the Reverse Hyper | Robertson Training Systems

Thanks for the input for what it is worth I would say I am clutching at straws. I could see the logic for what you are saying in terms of exaserbating a mild injury. In my case the injury is chronic and I am just trying to delay a double level disc replacement which in the long term is inevitable.

I am inclined to disagree with the mcgill school of thought but it is not really applicable in this case anyway ie. my back is already fucked. I think the opening and closing action the hyper will put on the vertebrae may infact take some of the tension off my protrusion. I get alot of relief from the cobra yoga position and suspect that it is because it relieves the tension allowing the disc to revert to it's natural shape momentarily.

As for the expense there are alot of people online who have made them as an attachment to a power rack and this is the route I was considering. In terms of machines it is one of the simplest designs around and very easy to copy.

 

[strong enough?]

FWIW Dr McGill is one of world's leading authorities on spinal injuries.

The cobra yoga position is referred to by back specialists as the McKenzie extensions, which is the standard prescription for a prolapsed disc. It works by exactly the process you describe. Its a form of unloaded lumbar extension - it gaps the verbetrae and takes the pressure of the front of the disc (which is actually what causes a rear prolapse).

A reverse hyper is the exact opposite of a McKenzie extension - it applies eccentric loading to the disc in a flexed position, and is actually putting pressure on the front of the disc potentially leading to further prolapse of the disc's contents. This is the concern. Now I posted a link which shows a variation of the reverse hyper which potentially removes that risk. But that variation basically ends up being a glutes and hams strength building - there are much safer ways of building up the glutes and hams. It's up to you but I'm trying to play devil's advocate here and offer some contrary views.

I think it's worth noting that when Louie Simmons invented the reverse hyper, he didn't have a slipped disc - he actually fractured his 5th verbetrae. Big difference from a slipped disc IMO. Not all back injuries are equal.

 

[Brick]

FWIW Dr McGill is one of world's leading authorities on spinal injuries.

The cobra yoga position is referred to by back specialists as the McKenzie extensions, which is the standard prescription for a prolapsed disc. It works by exactly the process you describe. Its a form of unloaded lumbar extension - it gaps the verbetrae and takes the pressure of the front of the disc (which is actually what causes a rear prolapse).

A reverse hyper is the exact opposite of a McKenzie extension - it applies eccentric loading to the disc in a flexed position, and is actually putting pressure on the front of the disc potentially leading to further prolapse of the disc's contents. This is the concern. Now I posted a link which shows a variation of the reverse hyper which potentially removes that risk. But that variation basically ends up being a glutes and hams strength building - there are much safer ways of building up the glutes and hams. It's up to you but I'm trying to play devil's advocate here and offer some contrary views.

I think it's worth noting that when Louie Simmons invented the reverse hyper, he didn't have a slipped disc - he actually fractured his 5th verbetrae. Big difference from a slipped disc IMO. Not all back injuries are equal.

Genuinely appreciate the input and that you are playing devils advocate. I am not up with the lingo you are using but my experience in managing this shit has taught me enough to realise what you are saying makes alot of sense.

Like I said mate just clutching at straws. Unfortunately disc replacements are a fantastic option for chronic pain however heavy deadlifting and squats are about the only exercise not recommended for people with lumbar level implants cause you run the risk of the implant dislodging.

Would do anything for just another two -three years of heavy lifting but I can't see that happening, quality of life is starting to suffer.

 

[Bazza20]

Like has been said depends on the injury. I hurt my back bad enough that I couldn't get out of bed.

Spent heaps at chiros and physios and never helped anything.

Read some of Mcgills books and started doing back raises. Relieved the pain instantly then moved onto lots of deadlifts and back raises and have been pretty much pain free since.

Those cobra hyperextensions are the worst thing I can do. If I do them I am in pain for weeks.

My point is there is no guarantee they will fix your back.

 

[haz]

Nice work strong enough. nailed it. I did this in class today.

find things you can do that do not cause pain, so for you, you should avoid compression in flexion.
focus on getting stronger at lumbar extension to protect and avoid excesive flexion

 

[callan]

ahhh westside lol

wheres hamburglar?

i use the one at MTS when i have time for assistance, no complaints from me.

 

[Oli]

I've never used one but general reviews seem to be that it's a good place to rest your beer...

Brick, message rippetoe and ask him about rehab.

 

[Bazza20]

I've never used one but general reviews seem to be that it's a good place to rest your beer...

Or Jim Wendlers view.

But basically it's an assistance exercise, If you have access to one use it otherwise don't stress. Nothing real magical about them.

 

[Brick]

Brick, message rippetoe and ask him about rehab.

Cheers mate I will do that.

 

[jamesyboi]

Used one at World Gym last Saturday.

I liked the machine.

Prefer freeweights but there are some good machines.