I didn't have a horse in this race before because I really wasn't paying attention to AusBB or PTC. But horse's post got me curious, so I took a look.
This Markos dude is getting people stronger and for that he is to be commended. I hate that these ideological divisions about belts keep cropping up and pitting board against board and poster against poster. I've learned that fully geared strong guys are to be respected, as are really strong guys who just use belts and wraps, or just belts, or nothing at all. Strong is indeed strong, but the guys who train the gear still very much tend to be the strongest of the strong. Markos has produced some respectably strong people, but I'm not seeing any results about which to be swinging any dicks.
I've compiled deadlift and squat meet results along with bodyweights of their strongest guys from this page, and used the deadlift as the ordering criterion, mostly because it is helped less than the squat by the belt. I'm also assuming that their competition bests were done without a belt.
PERFORMANCE TRAINING CENTRE in Frankston, VIC - PH: 0404 453 542 - HOME OF THE 200KG DEADLIFT
I'm using myself as the barometer so I've left out any upper body lifting because my own upper body lifting is like that of a high school girl's.
DL---SQ---Bodyweight
______________________
273.5---207.5---93.3
265---190---107.9
260---220---110.5
260---190---108.3
260---200---104.4
247.5---172.5---81.1 (Kelly)
240---165---124.5
240---170---101.1
230---175---111.9
220---160---84.5 (Nico)
220---155---94.9
So with the exception of two people--the impressive Kelly and Nico--all the conventional deadlifts as heavy or heavier than mine were done by men weighing well over 200 lbs. (I weigh 180-184.)
Their results really fall below mine once you get below 80 kilos bodyweight, so comparisons aren't fair. Here then are the best DL and SQ results from men only slightly heavier than I (with exception of Kelly who weighs a couple pounds less than I)...
DL---SQ---Bodyweight
_____________________
247.5---172.5---81.1 (Kelly again)
220---160---84.5 (Nico again)
200---170---89.6
190---140--83.7
185---165---86.5
My competition bests
DL---SQ---Bodyweight
___________________
232.5---190---81
These are a belted sumo deadlift and belted squats, so I have some 'splain' to do...
I compete sumo and use a belt because I'm not a real man, but I recently maxed a conventional deadlift in the gym at 490 (~222.5) with a belt at 183 lbs (83 kilos). I freely admit that without being able to push against that belt, my best that day would have been 470 (~212.5). I'm about to test a new DL gym max at 181 lbs in a week and I really, really hope to get quite a bit over 500 lbs. Also, the belt allows me to squat 15 kilos over my best belt-less max (and about 10 kilos for my deadlift). So assume my best squat is 175 kilos for comparison with these guys. Looking at the chart, that still puts this cheating belt-user ahead of the slightly bigger boys.
I'm not bragging about any of this. My lifts are respectable but very modest and bragging about them would be as foolish as bragging about an 8" dick. My genetics are those of a mediocre distance runner and even with obsessive devotion my lifting results will never get international notice. I'm just making comparisons of results using myself since I'm the loudmouth who keeps pushing the use of a belt.
If my broken, below-average black ass is recovered from my knee troubles come August, I'd like to compete in the Ironman division of 100% just to show how well geared training (belt, sleeves wraps) carries over to completely naked lifting. I'm doing USAPL raw in July (again, knee injury permitting) at 181 to see how well I can do against my last results in that fed, division and weight class. But I feel it is necessary to put it on the line occasionally in sanctioned 1000000% RAAAAAAAAW meets just to show that using a belt and knee sleeves or wraps will get you strong too, because my name is attached to lengthy articles and posts defending this very notion. (I'll probably take it easy on the squat, however, if I'm not wearing anything on my knees.) The really strong, extreme gear guys have been stepping into the belt/sleeves only RUM to show that they are still the strongest. I probably won't win, but there's a 100% RAW meet right here in Orlando a few weeks after the USAPL American Open in Fort Lauderdale. I'd like to compete in the Ironman, un-belted division to see what I can do completely nekkid in competition.
Lastly I want to make it clear that I have only respect for the results the PTC guys are getting. I think their hatred of belts makes about as much sense as creation "science", but they are getting results and for that they are to be commended.
