Night Time Recovery Protein Blend Discussion

[Big Mick]

You don't need casein for before bed, you aint going catabolic while you sleep

I have read several times that most muscles growth takes place while you are sleeping, for this growth to occur I believe that amino acids and as such protein needs to be available to your body through out the night so this muscle growth/recovery can take place at an optimal level.

I do realise that WPC is a slower release protein than WPI and as such would be better than WPI for pre bed/sleep protein, but that 'Calcium Caseinate' is even slower to be absorbed.

While Micellar CASEIN is an even slower absorbing protein taking up to 7 hours to absorb.

From the above I would reason that a blend of these three proteins would provide a sustained release of amino acids 'opimising' muscle growth and recovery.

From personal experience I have on several occasions woken up starving hungry in the middle of the night after a big heavy training session, where I had to get up and eat something like a can of tuna, or have a quick protein shake before going back to sleep.

I am currently taking a night time protein, and I have not woken up since, but the price is too expensive for my liking (Max's Nite time protein at $66kg, or about $2.50-$3.00 per serving). So I have been considering blending my own using proteins available from Bulk Nutrients, and as such have done a bit of reading up with the above findings.

This is only my simplistic 'novice' way of looking at things as I am not a nutritionist or similar, just a blue collar worker that has done a bit of reading on the internet

So I would be happy to be further educated on this subject before 'blending my own'.

I am aiming for maximum recovery and gains, and am happy to spend a few $$$ to achieve this, so please do not bring cost into the argument, as my workouts are tough and I want to get the most out of the hard work I am putting in

 

[MaxBrenner]

Mick, if you wish to use MC or CC before bed to HELP you meet your Macronutrient requirements for the DAY, go for it

But as I've outlined on another Thread ( http://ausbb.com/nutrition-diet/153...ng-post-workout-anabolic-window-gi-myths.html ), you need to think about things like this - If you are consuming a diet of protein ONLY and the amount of protein you have for the day is 200 grams. Now Whey protein digests the fastest at 10 grams an hour. So if you have your WHOLE day's protein needs just with the Whey Protein, that will take 20 HOURS to digest. Now if you had your 200 grams all from say cooked eggs (they digest at 3 grams per hour) it would take 66+ hours.

Now I'm pretty sure your diet consists of Protein, Carbs, Fats and Fibre from a mixture of WHOLE FOOD and powder, correct? Now each one of the other nutrients listed will SLOW digestion time down and if the are from WHOLE food choices it will be SLOWER again. See where I'm going with this

On a side note, when Whey is mixed with fats, carbs & fibre or there is previous ingested food, it 'digests' in the same way MC or CC does.

So as you can see, you go now where near catabolic when you sleep. But as I've said, if you want to have a shake before bed so you meet your macornutreint need for the day, go for it. You are taking it for that reason and the benefits that meeting your macronutrient requirements.

 

[Big Mick]

Cool that makes sense, what rate does red meat, pork fillet and chicken and canned tuna get absorbed at??

And any idea how much actual protein does each contain per 100gram on average???

My proteins come from eggs, red meat (beef), chicken, pork, some turkey (rarely), and canned tuna (daily), generally will have either red meat OR chicken, and will have a serving of tuna daily.

I do not like other meats such as game meats, kangaroo, or lamb.

The rest of my protein comes from protein powder BN WPI.

My night time protein stops me waking up hungry, and yes it is counted as my total daily protein intake.

Will read the other links when I have some time got to do some work now

What you say makes a LOT of sense, and has explained a few things to me that I was confused about.

 

[0ni]

It probably takes days for you to get all of the protein out of your food. Many bodybuilders get decent results doing that caveman diet (not paleo) where they eat once a day.

You need to be careful with marketing in this industry. You can generate decent diets at Swole.Me - The automatic diet generator I've never seen anything to suggest you need more than 0.7g/lb of lean mass in protein a day for muscle gain, so you can probably achieve this with food

 

[MaxBrenner]

Cool that makes sense, what rate does red meat, pork fillet and chicken and canned tuna get absorbed at??

And any idea how much actual protein does each contain per 100gram on average???

My proteins come from eggs, red meat (beef), chicken, pork, some turkey (rarely), and canned tuna (daily), generally will have either red meat OR chicken, and will have a serving of tuna daily.

I do not like other meats such as game meats, kangaroo, or lamb.

The rest of my protein comes from protein powder BN WPI.

My night time protein stops me waking up hungry, and yes it is counted as my total daily protein intake.

Will read the other links when I have some time got to do some work now

What you say makes a LOT of sense, and has explained a few things to me that I was confused about.

No problem at all

A pork tenderloin digested at the same rate as Whey. All other meats (as a generalization) are less than 8 grams per hour.

On average, whole food meats contain 18-20 grams of protein per 100 grams (raw uncooked weight).

Conversely on what Oni has suggested, With protein intake, go for 2 - 3 grams of protein per kilo of body weight. (Tipton KD & RR Wolfe. Protein and amino acids for athletes. J Sports Sci. 2004 - 22 (1):65-79)

I'm sure if you are getting at least half of it from whole food, you ain't going to be hungry

 

[Big Mick]

Thanks for all that info, I like my servings of meat etc, but even at 20g protein for 100g of meat, I would have to consume 1 to 1.5kg of meat a day to meet the 2-3g/kg body weight.

There for I believe protein powder is a great and cheap way to add protein to my diet.

So if I was going to blend my own nighttime protein would I be correct in blending 1 part calcium casseinate, and 2 parts WPC to create my own economically priced night time protein blend, that will stop me waking up hungry?

 

[MaxBrenner]

Thanks for all that info, I like my servings of meat etc, but even at 20g protein for 100g of meat, I would have to consume 1 to 1.5kg of meat a day to meet the 2-3g/kg body weight.

There for I believe protein powder is a great and cheap way to add protein to my diet.

So if I was going to blend my own nighttime protein would I be correct in blending 1 part calcium casseinate, and 2 parts WPC to create my own economically priced night time protein blend, that will stop me waking up hungry?

Yes I certainly suggest having a protein to cut down on food costs and preparation time. Again it is not a must but it does help

But you seem to have missed the point, why buy 2 different protein powders? You will get the same results both nutritionally and in body composition by just using the 1 protein and saving on the cost of buy 2. If you are buying 2 proteins, you could have spent that on food! Or you could just by MPI which is Whey Protein (20%) and Casein (80%) as your single protein powder.

Again, if you get at least a half of your protein from food and use your LAST meal of the day as WHOLE FOOD, you ain't going to be hungry And remember from my previous post, WHEY PROTEIN digests in a similar fashion to CASEIN when taken with whole food/other nutrients or the has been previously consumed food

 

[Big Mick]

Cool thanks, that makes it too easy then nothing else to do, and no special protein rquired.

 

[Figjam Brah]

Let us know if after changing to a night time snack+protein stops you form waking up hungry though...

 

[MaxBrenner]

What regulates hunger

Ghrelin
Released primarily from the stomach, ghrelin goes to the brain where, predictable, there is a specific receptor. Among other functions, ghrelin raises levels of growth hormone. But that’s far from all.
Ghrelin also stimulates hunger (the only hormone so far found to do so) and appears to be a key hormone in initiating the hunger that goes along with meals; ghrelin drops prior to hunger and injection of ghrelin stimulates hunger specifically.
Even more interestingly, there is research suggesting that ghrelin levels become entrained to normal meal times.
So if you normally eat at 3pm (or whatever), you’ll likely find yourself becoming hungry at 3pm; this appears to occur from changes in ghrelin. I suspect this explains why people often have problems changing meal frequency, at least until ghrelin re-entrains itself to the new frequency.