Niggles

[Goosey]

Over the many years of my training life I have needed to manage a few niggling injuries, like; a torn meniscus in the left knee, nerve impingement under the left shoulder blade, and all of the associated unidentifiable pains and sprains that come and go with just living.

Over this time I've used (as a method of rehab) foam rollers, therabands, massage, yoga, oils, pills, tennis balls and such.

Over five years ago I realized for myself that the only real truly effective method of controlling, healing and mending my niggles was with complete rest, no ice or extreme heat, just rest, when the pain had subsided I found that with patience proper, safe, controlled weight bearing exercise is the only true productive method of repairing and preventing injury.

Also over the years I have noticed there are some exercises that Im not suited to, the biomechanics not right.
Rather than working around them I find exercises that are similar that don't give me grief.

This business of health and fitness is a journey not a destination.

Just my thoughts, thanks.

 

[Bazza20]

I agree to a certain extent but if I had complete rest every time I had a niggle I would never end up training.

 

[Bella]

I like your thoughts Andy!

And you're right. The body needs to heal and ample time to recover. I like that you find 'work around' exercises, in the event that you can't do what you'd like to do.

There are so many people on this forum and in life, who have injuries that prevent them from doing what they'd like to do, or progressing as fast as they hoped to.

In the end though, the body dictates what it's capable of, at any given time. You have to do whatever you can, to love your body, every step of the way.

Massage, yoga, stretching, foam rollers...all seem to be good measures. But sometimes I can't help wondering, if we had properly warmed our bodies and muscles up, would we have suffered the injury in the first place?

It's like starting a car in the middle of ice storm, you can't just rev her up and put your foot on the excelerator. You need to start her, let her idle and warm up for 5 minutes or so, rev the engine a couple of times to give her some guts...and then proceed, cautiously, until she's thoroughly heated.

My workouts always consist of 10-15 minute warm ups first. Never go in cold, your muscles need to be woken up first and stretched and warmed.

But that's what works for me and I'm not a bb'er or a pl'er. But my body, I can honestly say, although not yet where I want it to be, is so fine tuned and responsive these days. Not one muscle is left untouched, or tight, or cold. I warm up all of my body, every single time.

 

[Goosey]

I agree to a certain extent but if I had complete rest every time I had a niggle I would never end up training.

I'd still keep training the areas that work, pain free.

When I tore my meniscus I stopped squatting of course, rested and walked out the problem along with leg extensions and SLDL's.

The only thing that does not make my knee flair up is squatting and leg extensions, walking or any form of sport especially squash aggravates it.

 

[dave]

It's like starting a car in the middle of ice storm, you can't just rev her up and put your foot on the excelerator. You need to start her, let her idle and warm up for 5 minutes or so, rev the engine a couple of times to give her some guts...and then proceed, cautiously, until she's thoroughly heated.

My workouts always consist of 10-15 minute warm ups first. Never go in cold, your muscles need to be woken up first and stretched and warmed.

That is a terrible analogy. The human body is always on and warm, a car is off and dead cold and that is why it needs to be warmed up to be lubricated. Warming up properly can help some peoples performance by stimulating neural pathways but in terms of muscle tissue it is not needed. I have had people do extensive warmups and injure themselves and have others never warmups properly and yet have no issues. Most people love to blame lack of a warmup for their injury yet most times is a slip up in form, pushing one to many reps or going to heavy.

 

[Goosey]

Bella, you see, I don't even use a warmup with the exeption of squatting, but that's just one set to "grease the groove" so to speak.
I just get stuck into the work set, if the exercise is smooth and controlled there is no risk of injury, by the time you get to that last rep the risk of injuring the muscle is zero.

 

[Bella]

That is a terrible analogy. The human body is always on and warm, a car is off and dead cold and that is why it needs to be warmed up to be lubricated. Warming up properly can help some peoples performance by stimulating neural pathways but in terms of muscle tissue it is not needed. I have had people do extensive warmups and injure themselves and have others never warmups properly and yet have no issues. Most people love to blame lack of a warmup for their injury yet most times is a slip up in form, pushing one to many reps or going to heavy.

Bella, you see, I don't even use a warmup with the exeption of squatting, but that's just one set to "grease the groove" so to speak.
I just get stuck into the work set, if the exercise is smooth and controlled there is no risk of injury, by the time you get to that last rep the risk of injuring the muscle is zero.

I agree with you both. Form is most important. But warming up, works for me and is important to my body's function. I can't go in cold. And sure, whilst we're human and warm creatures and many muscle fibres are already warmed from incidental activity, there are plenty that aren't.

Stretching and warming for me, has become habitual over the last year and a half and I feel better for the warm up, my body feels switched on and alive and I go into my workout feeling confident of my body's ability.

Form is obviously important. And given the list of clients I see with niggling knee problems in particular - people's squat form sucks, generally. And you're right, no amount of warm up, will save you from injury, if your form is crap.

 

[Goosey]

That is a terrible analogy. The human body is always on and warm, a car is off and dead cold and that is why it needs to be warmed up to be lubricated. Warming up properly can help some peoples performance by stimulating neural pathways but in terms of muscle tissue it is not needed. I have had people do extensive warmups and injure themselves and have others never warmups properly and yet have no issues. Most people love to blame lack of a warmup for their injury yet most times is a slip up in form, pushing one to many reps or going to heavy.

I was guilty at some point in time using the car analogy and I would often say "would you work on a car without the reading the manual", but we are not machines.

It's usually the first rep that is where the damaged is caused and the last rep is the safest and most productive.

 

[Goosey]

No worries BB, for me, my motive is not to argue or sway someone's opinion but to just share experience, and hell I could be wrong.
Thanks for your thoughts

 

[Bazza20]

I'd still keep training the areas that work, pain free.

When I tore my meniscus I stopped squatting of course, rested and walked out the problem along with leg extensions and SLDL's.

The only thing that does not make my knee flair up is squatting and leg extensions, walking or any form of sport especially squash aggravates it.

I will say I totally agree with just scrapping exercises that cause pain rather than trying to work around it.

Eg low bar squat hurts my shoulders. I could try stretches and a few things but it's easier to just scrap it and do high bar. Same with wide grip bench, gave it a go and it smashed my shoulders, I could try a heap of pre hab exercise but stuff that I'll just do close grip. Funny thing though BTN press for me is great has never hurt one bit and makes my shoulders feel better.

 

[dave]

I was guilty at some point in time using the car analogy and I would often say "would you work on a car without the reading the manual", but we are not machines.

It's usually the first rep that is where the damaged is caused and the last rep is the safest and most productive.

I would have to agree the first rep can be the most dangerous.

In regards to your warmup Bella I have found women tend to need more of a warmup than guys (just in general) before feeling it and most perform better in the second set. I believe it is mostly psychological but I could be wrong. Still in regards to injury I have yet to see or read any convincing evidence to show a warm up is better and a lot of evidence that stretching is worse (unless a specific muscle group is impeeding the movement).

 

[Goosey]

I would have to agree the first rep can be the most dangerous.

In regards to your warmup Bella I have found women tend to need more of a warmup than guys (just in general) before feeling it and most perform better in the second set. I believe it is mostly psychological but I could be wrong. Still in regards to injury I have yet to see or read any convincing evidence to show a warm up is better and a lot of evidence that stretching is worse (unless a specific muscle group is impeeding the movement).

You touch on a very interesting subject David.

My experience is that more often than not women need less intense exercise, generally less weight than their use to and higher rep ranges and a lot more work focused on the lower extremities than men.

 

[Bella]

Hmm maybe you're right Dave, I don't know. I know I feel better and my body is better with weight training after a complete warm up. I know I recover better too. But maybe that's just me.

And Andy, I think you're spot on. Lower weight, higher reps. That's what I'll be focusing on moving forward.

We need help with the bottom half because we have hips, arses and thighs that seem to love to store fat! lol

 

[candyflip]

What they're saying is Bella, it's very hard to know EXACTLY what keeps you injury free. You may think it's warm-ups, but that's virtually impossible to 100% prove. You're not getting injured, but how is that 100% proven to be because of warm-ups? It's not. Which is why there is so much conjecture about the whole warm-up process right now.

There are givens in this world (death, taxes) and there is really really good proof (overloading muscles with work makes them evetually tire, and grow somewhat in response) and there is stuff that makes us feel good that we think might work (warm-ups, giving our Mum presents).

The last 2 are not 100% proven.

 

[Bella]

What they're saying is Bella, it's very hard to know EXACTLY what keeps you injury free. You may think it's warm-ups, but that's virtually impossible to 100% prove. You're not getting injured, but how is that 100% proven to be because of warm-ups? It's not. Which is why there is so much conjecture about the whole warm-up process right now.

There are givens in this world (death, taxes) and there is really really good proof (overloading muscles with work makes them evetually tire, and grow somewhat in response) and there is stuff that makes us feel good that we think might work (warm-ups, giving our Mum presents).

The last 2 are not 100% proven.

lol

Well I did just say it works for me.

I think form is paramount, because even with lengthy warm up and stretching, if your form is crap, sure, you're more likely to get injured.

I don't have the answer, I was just giving my opinion, for what works or seems to work, for me. And my focus on perfect form, with what I do, probably helps that...

And for the record, giving gifts, always makes you feel good, the proof is in intangible and unable to be chartered on that one, but the feeling itself...is enough proof for me

 

[DREADLIFT]

Don't forget the dencorub.

 

[candyflip]

Well I did just say it works for me.

And for the record, giving gifts, always makes you feel good, the proof is in intangible and unable to be chartered on that one, but the feeling itself...is enough proof for me

Giving gifts might always make you feel good, but it's not a given the receiver will appreciate it (especially Mums I find). Thus, like warm-ups, there is a personal psychological benefit, but not necessarily a pay-off as intended.

 

[Bella]

Giving gifts might always make you feel good, but it's not a given the receiver will appreciate it (especially Mums I find).

really? lol

Are you buying crappy presents candy?

My Mum always loved the gifts I gave her. I'm a gift giver extraordinaire, pm me if you would like some tips in the 'How to thrill Mum with a gift' department

lol

 

[Goosey]

I can only reveal my thoughts through self evident truths.

The way and how muscles respond to resistance is only theory, no one knows.
Amazing really.

But I do feel that the all or none theory is valid, in that the CNS doesn't burn out but just stops which is really evident in very hard training where the intensity of work is high compared to high volume low intensity of work.

Shit I waffle on, I got so much goin on in the head.

 

[<ULTRA-MEGA>]

as lee haney said: "stimulate, not annihilate".