Hormone replacement therapy, thoughts?

[vonfram88]

This is something i am concerned about being in defence, the adf drug and prohibited substances policy deems testosterone as a banned compound, they are looking into it now to see if on medical grounds this is worthy of a waiver. Could be a complicated road ahead for me with all of this.

As with most sporting federations they dont test for the level in the blood they test for the compound. Which is just outright stupidity IMO but not much that can be done about it.

HRT use is certainly not going to happen in PA. The IPF have explicitly ruled it out. Other than in a few rare cases, adult males probably should not be preoccupied with this issue. The natural differences in body composition and body chemistry between lifters is part of the reason for the different performance levels amongst lifters.

Training and discipline might have something do with this, too..

As we age, testosterone declines. Aging males are the main target demographic for HRT and the uptake has been quite surprising. Some people don't like to accept the aging process I guess.

My reading is 9 at the age of 41. It's at the low end of the natural range. I accept that if I compete, others in my age group may have naturally higher levels than me which gives them a natural edge in that area. I don't want to lift if others in my class are using a doctor to enhance their levels to that of a juiced 21 year-old. The grading scale in PA at the moment makes it possible for someone like me to achieve an A grade. If they allow HRT in, then the grading scale will be affected and a natural lifter would have no hope of getting beyond C or B grade.

There is also the risk that some HRT users may seek to enhance to the upper limits through self -administration in order to improve their performance. That's another good reason for IPF to deny its use in competition. It would be impossible to reliably test whether the HRT Lifter's levels were reasonable due to the large fluctuations in concentration that can occur in the body in a relatively short time frame. They can only reliably detect YES or NO.

Now I expect the ADF would have similar concerns about the inability to effectively police its use/misuse.

 

[spartacus]

yes, i also dont want to digress too much from genuine concerns about health i relation to low tesosterone levels for anyone due to no fault of their own. They should indeed have every opportunity to enjoy a healthy life.

I was actually a bit surprised by Sticky's experience and could not fathom his problems given my own experience as a teenager.

But in regard to PA, yes i too am looking forward to testing my geriatric abilities as i age through PA comps from 2013. I hope i am one of the lucky ones experiencing a slow decline with my male hormones.

In relative terms, i was only 10kg off my best ever bench of 147.5kg (touch and go) in 2011 as a 50 year old compared to my best achieved when I was 36 years.

I also have my mate Vim van weenan as an inspiration given he can still squat 160kg and deadlift 200kg as an 80 year old.

 

[NJA82]

Now I expect the ADF would have similar concerns about the inability to effectively police its use/misuse.

I assume that it would be closely monitored via regular blood work, especially in the first 6 months to 1 year, and we have our own pharmacy as well which is part of the medical section which would be supplying only what the doctor requires. Policing it where we are is far far easier than in the civilian world.

Im still unsure what the outcome will be, i havent been able to see my doctor the past few days working night shifts so until i see him next week its still uncertain what is happening.

 

[jzpowahz]

My questions are for the guys out there on this treatment, I take this very seriously as i realise this is a life time ordeal and something i have to incorporate indefinitely.

How did you guys react to the initial treatment? as in what positive and negative changes did you notice in the short term?

I used to get a solid 8hrs sleep a night and wake up feeling like I hadn't slept a wink. Constantly lethargic basically.

Has the treatment gotten your levels back to where they should be and kept them there for the long term?

My most recent test had me at 12nmol the day before my next shot was due so I'm just staying in "normal" range.

What types of treatment are you guys being given? ive been suggested patches or implants, the doctor hasnt suggested injections at this stage although from the research ive done 100-200mg a week of test ethanate injected seems to be one of the better solutions to avoid a peak and a taper off towards the end of the half life which seems to happen when it is only administered every other week at a higher dose.

Initially sust 250 once every 2 weeks and now primotestin once every 2weeks. (1ml) Never been on any patches or anything. Got advice from sticky when I first went on so decided to go straight for test e.

And most importantly how has it effected your training in the gym? and your sex life?

Training intensity is similar but general energy levels throughout the day are castly improved. And, didn't have a sex life prior haha. Never had any libido issues though.

Hope that helps.

 

[NJA82]

Just thought i would throw up the latest results and what has happened with this scenario.

Just had results in from the latest blood tests done in late december, test results showed all levels to be normal as far as FSH, LH, SBHG, PSA BUT test levels this time around were only 3.1 on a range of 11-35.

Initial diagnosis from pathology is secondary hypogonadism, doctor is fairly convinced there is nothing wrong downstairs with the gonads but is concerned there is a problem in the pituitary gland in the frontal lobe of the brain.

Had more tests done monday and awaiting results now.

If these results come back within range as in within the range of 11-35 ( first result was 11.8 ) even if its a low range the doctor reckons its not low enough to do anything for me, what do you guys reckon? Should i push him for a referal to an endo to see what they reckon?

He says if these results come back below range he will refer me straight away as 2 abnormal results show something definitely wrong. As far as im concerned ive already got enough evidence to be seeking some kind of treatment, nothing has changed in my overall well being and sex drive etc. its still pretty much not there so im fairly convinced there is something not right here.

 

[Sticky]

Push to see an Endo, or Get a new GP.

 

[ROC]

where can i find doctor on gold coast to help with testosterone HRT, i have found Ageing Clinics which assist with this but they charge $200+ for consultations

 

[NJA82]

Go to any good doctor and if your blood tests come back and show there is a problem you will get reffered to a specialist where they will decide whether or not you need HRT or not. No legit doctor in his right mind or abiding by the law will prescribe anyone testosterone freely without having the correct information from blood tests and possible scans.

Had my latest blood results today, test came back at 5.1nm ( 11-35 range ) LH and FSH levels low normal so doctor has reffered me to an endo and is fairly confident its pituitary related but i will have to go for scans now to confirm if they can see anything there or not. Either way the doctor seems confident i will be placed on HRT and he will be able to prescribe and administer what i get recommended by the endo.

Finally getting somewhere with it all. Still cant believe how low my levels are for 30 years old.. im well below the minimum range.

 

[vonfram88]

yes, i also dont want to digress too much from genuine concerns about health i relation to low tesosterone levels for anyone due to no fault of their own. They should indeed have every opportunity to enjoy a healthy life.

I was actually a bit surprised by Sticky's experience and could not fathom his problems given my own experience as a teenager.

But in regard to PA, yes i too am looking forward to testing my geriatric abilities as i age through PA comps from 2013. I hope i am one of the lucky ones experiencing a slow decline with my male hormones.

In relative terms, i was only 10kg off my best ever bench of 147.5kg (touch and go) in 2011 as a 50 year old compared to my best achieved when I was 36 years.

I also have my mate Vim van weenan as an inspiration given he can still squat 160kg and deadlift 200kg as an 80 year old.

Aging doesn't mean it's over in the strength game. Nor does low endogenous testosterone associated with aging mean you will be weak.

Its a life long journey and the foundation work you put in over the decades makes all the difference. My test levels are less than 9 and I'm 42 but since my return to training about two years ago I'm getting close to 90% of the typical weights I lifted in my late 20s when I was an angry erection with legs.

Pritchard is an over 40 and has the biggest total in Australian tested powerlifting. He is getting stronger and he's not even physically the largest super heavyweight in the game.

 

[Sticky]

I can't fathom why people would want to live with low test if you show symtoms and qualify.....

Von, its it some kind of moral thing?

 

[vonfram88]

Not morality, its more a case of mortality.

Family predisposition to prostate issues, in common with many aging men. Extra Testosterone is just going to accelerate death for many people.

mouths to feed etc.....need to live.

The other guys in Masters age division in PA probably would have similar test levels to me. So it's a quite level playing field really, the grading scales fairly reflect that, and there's not that much at stake anyway.

 

[NJA82]

I hate the way my life is now, if going on testosterone brings my sex life back and gives me the energy i had when i was 20 ( im only 30 now ) to do my job and carry on with life without requiring 9-10 hours sleep a night or im falling asleep before lunch then i will take the risks that come with it... even though nothing is proven in regards to the risks you mention.

I want to enjoy the life i have, not live a couple of years longer having zero sex life and feeling like shit all the time, to each his own mate.

 

[vonfram88]

Your call mate and for a lot of the people who genuinely require HRT there will be limited downside. Your health professional will advise you appropriately.

 

[NJA82]

Thats the hope mate, my readings arent your normal low range like most people ive seen online throughout my research... Most people seem to be in the 10-13 range on the 10-35 scale for total test. My results have been 3.1 and 5.5 the last 2 blood tests, something isnt right there for my age, as my doctor informed me complications down the track such as osteoporosis and other diseases can arise from such low levels well below the minimum range.

My GP said he will be keeping an eye on cholestorol and PSA levels especially for the first 12 months to make sure there isnt any immediate complications from the treatment.

 

[Sticky]

IMO opinion, the sides/risks of higher test FAR out weigh the risks/sides of low test.

 

[tom paris]

Hi folks
I recently went on to HRT last September and started with reandron 1000mg then a six week booster then every 3 months, my GP has now introduced primoteston 250mg every 2 weeks and oxandrolone 10mg twice a day, also thyroid armour and DHEA, my blood test results before the intro of everything bar the reandron where
Test 26.9nmol/L free test 592.3
GP said my estrogen was high
I haven't started the primo or the oxandrolone yet just filled script, my question is
I'm 46 years old enjoy going to the gym and like most over 40yr olds have put some extra body fat round my gut, I'm 165cm and 73kg slim apart from slight belly fat, 85cm round my belly button, will taking the primo and oxandrolone help me lose my body fat round my middle, I eat approx 1800 calories a day and my diet is clean, eggs for breakfast , chicken and veg, then steak with salad and 1 protein shake a day.
I stick to this 6days a week and have 1 cheat meal a week, I did this diet for 8months last year and lost 10cm from around my belly, I now want to lose the rest, will the above help.
The reandron has helped my mood and libido so that's good
Your thoughts please
Thanks

 

[NJA82]

Hey guys, long time since i posted about this but i seen the endo again for the 2nd time today, he wanted to run another blood test, fertility test and an MRI before i seen him again to rule out any obvious stuff.

MRI on the pituitary was clear, fertility test came back fantastic according to him and my free test ( which is all he tested for the time for some reason ) was within range but low at 12.8 ( 10-35 range ) LH was low normal and FSH was low normal, this is the first time its been in range for a long time and because of all of this he has told me that there is nothing wrong with me and pretty much thats that....no chance of any kind of treatment at all.

I still feel shit, have all the symptoms still and i know that being in that low range isnt ideal but i dont know what to do here now Im posted up in the NT and Darwin is my only close city so a second opinion could be impossible while im living here. I really am out of ideas, i go to see my GP again on Weds but after these results he wont treat me for low T as the endo says im fine.

The endo told me its stress related? Can stress cause such low levels of around 3 and 5 ( 10-35 range ) from my previous 2 blood tests? The thing that concerns me is the 2 really low results in the past 4 months when nothing in my life has changed since then to affect the results, diet, nutrition, training, sleep etc. all the same as its always been which is all in check.

Anyone got any suggestions? Life has been so shit the past 6-12 months and to know that there is no chance that will change now is devastating to hear, the medical industry in Australia seems to be very ignorant towards HRT and simply accept that anything within range even if its only barely in range is fine, even for a 30 year old fit healthy bloke.

 

[Sticky]

That really, really sucks mate. Sorry to hear.

I know what you're going through in regards to symptoms, and how hard it can be to get treated. Thats why I get so pissed off when people come on here boasting about Dr shopping for gear so they can cycle..... It makes our lives very hard.

 

[Bazza20]

That really, really sucks mate. Sorry to hear.

I know what you're going through in regards to symptoms, and how hard it can be to get treated. Thats why I get so pissed off when people come on here boasting about Dr shopping for gear so they can cycle..... It makes our lives very hard.

This is it. You can't really blame GPs for not wanting to treat blokes on the low end of norm. You have all these guys trying to jump around doctors for a gear prescription. It's easy to find the symptoms of low test on google and lie to your doctor. If someone comes back on the low end you can see why many Doctors rather wait it out and see what happens rather than straight away start writing out prescriptions for test.

 

[Brick]

This is it. You can't really blame GPs for not wanting to treat blokes on the low end of norm. You have all these guys trying to jump around doctors for a gear prescription. It's easy to find the symptoms of low test on google and lie to your doctor. If someone comes back on the low end you can see why many Doctors rather wait it out and see what happens rather than straight away start writing out prescriptions for test.

What amuses me is all these ****s at the low end of normal getting stroppy. Low end of the range is still in range LOL.

Fuck you're tired, lethargic, not holding gains as wells as you were in your 20's, getting fat easier. Welcome to fucking middle age, why the hell should the tax payer subsidise your steroids buy them off bikies like everyone else.