• Keep up to date with Ausbb via Twitter and Facebook. Please add us!
  • Join the Ausbb - Australian BodyBuilding forum

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

    The Ausbb - Australian BodyBuilding forum is dedicated to no nonsense muscle and strength building. If you need advice that works, you have come to the right place. This forum focuses on building strength and muscle using the basics. You will also find that the Ausbb- Australian Bodybuilding Forum stresses encouragement and respect. Trolls and name calling are not allowed here. No matter what your personal goals are, you will be given effective advice that produces results.

    Please consider registering. It takes 30 seconds, and will allow you to get the most out of the forum.

Hack Squats or deficit deads for Deads assistance

Ok
I remembered that in starting strength rip covers box squats. Im at work atm so if anyone wants to post hat up they can or i can post it up when i get home
 
What you were arguing were not semantics
(That is a semantic argument, you like the irony there?)
 
Here is an interview with Eric Lilliebridge, who is one of the most explosive raw squatters that I have ever seen:

LIFT-RUN-BANG: Interview with Powerlifting Phenom/Beast/Juggernaut Eric Lilliebridge Pt. 1
LIFT-RUN-BANG: Interview with Powerlifting Phenom/Beast/Juggernaut Pt. 2

PC - What about box squats? Have you played with box squats because everyone will tell you they're the bees knees.

EL - Yeah I've tried em before. When I've tried me before they don't work for me. My stance isn't very wide so when I've used em I feel like I'm pitching too far back or too far forward. So when I tried em I did widen my stance a little bit, and I didn't do em for too long. I really just didn't care for em. I figured if I'm going to squat I might as well just squat, and squat all the way down like I normally do.

PC - Right, and I think a lot of information is misguided for raw lifting. Some raw guys will follow equipment based templates or ideas, and it's mostly based around hamstrings and glutes and low back. And the truth is, raw squatting is a lot of quad power.

EL - Oh God yes it is. That's for sure.

PC - Right, and no matter what anyone says the philosophies are backwards. Raw guys need to train to be strong out of the bottom and equipped guys need to train to be strong at the top. So the philosohpies can't be the same.

EL - No they really can't be.
Click to expand...

If you don't believe me about how explosive Eric is:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYQVcw0PY6M]Eric Lilliebridge- Squat Training 8-18-12 - YouTube[/ame]
 
His statements are somewhat contradictory. He claims a raw squatter needs to train to be strong out of the bottom of the squat but also seems dismissive of the posterior chain conditioning that would enable that to happen. Quad strength, which he suggests is the purview of raw squatters, will not get anyone out of the hole in the squat.

These guys in the power magazine are impressive lifters. However for many of them their supplementation regimes would give them a 400kg squat just by doing Zumba.
 
Last edited:
Interesting Lilliebridge says that because his squat style is very quad dominant until he puts wraps on. Doesn't sit back at all and lets his knees shoot forward like its a high bar olympic squat. His squat form changes completely when he puts the wraps on - very evident in the video - he starts sitting back. This obviously works well for him, but won't work for anyone. Its no surprise emphasising PC chain adds nothing to his squatting because he doesn't squat that way.
 
Not to mention Brandon Lilly, who beat him at the SPF backyard meat, says box squats can help a raw lifter

So it's 1-1 for "but x lifter said this"
 
Innumeral raw lifters say them same thing. Kirk karwoski, jamie lewis, chad wesley smith, wendler, scott yard and so on. Look at the way scott, ricky goodyear and zach squat. They losd the quads. I would think it would go without saying that the most common way to squat big raw is to load the quads. This whole westside shit is beginning to piss me off. Erics squat technique doesnt lend itself to box squats? Well no shit maybe that would give you an idea on the best way to squat, but obviously not.

Look at stan efferding. He does paused squats (surprise!) he box squats as well but not with traditional box squat form.
 
Ever notice how nearly all disaster movies, zombie flicks and alien invasions only seem to happen in America?

800lb squats are commonplace in America. The lifters cited in these farcical debates on training are all living in a different world to the average Ausbb member.
 
Im not even going to dignify that with an answer, especially as half the people i mentioned were australian
 
Most of your posts refer to US lifters. Learn to count. Learn some basic anatomy. Then learn to argue.

Continuing to defend statements that suggest recovery out of the bottom of a squat is a function of quad strength is sheer folly. Your idols have the same anatomy as anyone else. Hip and back extension from the bottom position of the squat is not caused by the quads.

This post originally sought information on assistance exercises for deadlifting and has deteriorated into a rather pointless and generally flawed analysis of what muscles are used in squatting and the usual mindless and partial paraphrasing of Internet sourced material.

Apologies to the original poster. Box squats will work the same muscles you need for the deadlift. Take it or leave it. Or follow the lead of the google expert and do high bar squats.
 
My suggestion was not high bar squats. Your hypothesis about the quads not being important in the bottom of the squat is hilarious. I didnt say the posterior chain wasnt important either. In fact my suggestion from the start has been that a box squat is bad because it changes the mechanics too much and i suggested swapping one day to a box deadlift day to take the stress off the lower back. Every tangent in this thread was caused by you.

I didnt say that power out the hole was 100% quads that is something you made up.
 
Last edited:
vonfram88 said:
Box squats will work the same muscles you need for the deadlift.
Click to expand...

This, I added low box squats to my deadlift program and had good gains from them. Squats arent a piority to me so much, I still do them but dont run big programs to increase it. More keen on pullinga super heavy dead :cool:
 
0ni said:
My suggestion was not high bar squats. Your hypothesis about the quads not being important in the bottom of the squat is hilarious. I didnt say the posterior chain wasnt important either. In fact my suggestion from the start has been that a box squat is bad because it changes the mechanics too much and i suggested swapping one day to a box deadlift day to take the stress off the lower back. Every tangent in this thread was caused by you.

I didnt say that power out the hole was 100% quads that is something you made up.
Click to expand...

You are the one who quoted bunch of poop in which one of the parties suggested that certain posterior chain work is not important in raw squatting. Do you now refute that?

Please tell us how leg extension (the role of the quads) is going to propel you out of the bottom position of the squat. I think I just cracked another rib laughing.

In a tangential way, and because you're an easy target, let's back track;

The answer to the earlier questions I posed:

The 100kg free squat at the greater velocity generates 200joules.

The 200kg squat at lower velocity (ie to a box) generates 100joules.

So do you think that somehow does not have any bearing on the amount of stress the knee experiences?

If you dont understand what a Joule is then as a handy reference, a typical 9mm x 19 NATO round generates about 400Joules of energy at the muzzle.
 
I didn't day that it wasn't important
I said box squats were a poor exercise for the raw lifter
I gave examples of exercises that train the correct muscles but do not interfere with the mechanics of the competition exercises
Eric Lilliebridge didn't say the posterior chain wasn't important, he said that the quads were important. Making the quads important doesn't mean hamstring development isn't important

And saying that a 200kg box squat generates 100j of energy is fucking bananas
 
0ni said:
And saying that a 200kg box squat generates 100j of energy is fucking bananas
Click to expand...

It's fucking physics too. A 200kg mass traveling at 1m/s (the descent phase) generates 100J of impact. Being pedantic, the effect on the knee is far greater given the multiplication of forces by the body's levers. The length of the force arm (in this case the femur) and the distance of the load from the pivot point (the knee) will vary between individuals.

We'll hold that multiplier as a constant for a given individual and now change the weight to 100kg but increase the velocity to 2m/s. There's 200J. And double the force experienced at the knee.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top