Forgive me father, for I have sinned

[0ni]

the same subject came up in my training log a while back.

now i cbf reading over the last 3 or 4 pages thoroughly, but what i will say is;
the best way to increase your bench, is to bench. simple as that. you will prefect your technique, and excuse my way of explaining but also that motor pattern thingo where u do the same movement over and over and your body remembers is and gets stronger in that grove thing. (LOL) by benching to increase bench u are working the muscles EXACTLY how they will be used.

brb going to increase my squat by doing good mornings, leg presses and curls.

(sorry for my tired explanation but u get the idea)

I didn't say that I was giving up benching though. Just that I would be using push presses as my main pressing movement and shoulder/tricep builder. It's not really a black/white thing. Alternating PP and BB in 5x5 is a totally reasonable way to increase your bench press and I will still be benching more frequently than a routine like, say, 5/3/1

 

[Sticky]

You did NOT put that in your OP.

Whilst I still don't think you need it, what you have written there is a SHIT TONNE better than what you said you would be doing in the op.

Not sure if your backtracking? Either way, the "new" plan is a step in the right direction, apart from the benching.

 

[callan]

So much win in this thread.

Oni, I honestly think that the reason you never made great progress with any of those programs is because you never stuck to them or or applied yourself wholeheartedly.

this is why i asked oni how long he had worked on these programs... 1 month for the first, and 3 months for the second. i just shook my head.

 

[callan]

I didn't say that I was giving up benching though. Just that I would be using push presses as my main pressing movement and shoulder/tricep builder. It's not really a black/white thing. Alternating PP and BB in 5x5 is a totally reasonable way to increase your bench press and I will still be benching more frequently than a routine like, say, 5/3/1

i squat heavy once a week, bench heavy once a week and deadlift heavy once a week. u dont need to do oodles of volume to make gains.

 

[Sticky]

Volume for raw benching, especially at a novice level should definatly be on the cards.

 

[callan]

Volume for raw benching, especially at a novice level should definatly be on the cards.

yeah hahahahaha after i posted that i though to myself... "i seriously said that just after i upped the volume on my benching" lol but then again it comes down to how the person's body reacts to more/less volume.

 

[Bench Polkov]

I didn't say that I was giving up benching though. Just that I would be using push presses as my main pressing movement and shoulder/tricep builder. It's not really a black/white thing. Alternating PP and BB in 5x5 is a totally reasonable way to increase your bench press and I will still be benching more frequently than a routine like, say, 5/3/1

I'm an advanced bencher and I have always used bench as my main lift. OHP has come and gone depending on my shoulder integrity but bench has been the mainstay.

Spritcha said the same and he's one of the top benchers in Australia...

Do you see the thread here?

 

[dandexter]

Those who compete in PL events do lots of work to increase their bench as it's one of their 3 events and so their OHP falls behind.

Those who are training for general/recreational strength however, tend to gravitate toward a 66:100 ratio if they're following a program that uses both movements (Wendler, SS, GSLP, etc, etc). All I'm saying is it's something I've noticed on multiple training logs / websites / forums / friends etc

That supports more point exactly, doing OHP doesn't directly effect bench press.

 

[0ni]

You did NOT put that in your OP.

Whilst I still don't think you need it, what you have written there is a SHIT TONNE better than what you said you would be doing in the op.

Not sure if your backtracking? Either way, the "new" plan is a step in the right direction, apart from the benching.

It's clearly in the original post, which hasn't been edited whatsoever. Anyway, I'm intrigued as to why you think lots of push pressing + benching 3 times a week is a poor strategy, despite the fact that you said otherwise a beginner needs high pressing volume & frequency. I'm not backtracking, if I had said that I was going to bench 140kg then you wouldn't expect me to start benching 140kg the next day. High frequency is no different

I'm an advanced bencher and I have always used bench as my main lift. OHP has come and gone depending on my shoulder integrity but bench has been the mainstay.

Spritcha said the same and he's one of the top benchers in Australia...

Do you see the thread here?

That supports more point exactly, doing OHP doesn't directly effect bench press.

A lot of big raw benchers use push press, a lot don't bench heavy at all only doing speed work once a week. Saying that an exercise that overloads the shoulders and triceps "doesn't directly effect bench press" is ludicrous. What's next? Front squats don't improve cleans? Hamstring work won't carry over to a geared squat?

To quote the internet: "LOL WUT"

 

[dave]

Guys you are not changing his mind just let him go...

 

[Morgan]

I'm most looking forward to Christmas 2012 when Oni will still be 65kg with the same lifts.

 

[Bench Polkov]

It's clearly in the original post, which hasn't been edited whatsoever. Anyway, I'm intrigued as to why you think lots of push pressing + benching 3 times a week is a poor strategy, despite the fact that you said otherwise a beginner needs high pressing volume & frequency. I'm not backtracking, if I had said that I was going to bench 140kg then you wouldn't expect me to start benching 140kg the next day. High frequency is no different





A lot of big raw benchers use push press, a lot don't bench heavy at all only doing speed work once a week. Saying that an exercise that overloads the shoulders and triceps "doesn't directly effect bench press" is ludicrous. What's next? Front squats don't improve cleans? Hamstring work won't carry over to a geared squat?

To quote the internet: "LOL WUT"

I never said that overhead pressing didn't help, but its an assistance exercise for bench.

And you're not a big raw bencher. Most of those raw benchers built their core strength with volume benching and now mainly focus on speed work to allow their tris to keep up with their chest.

Oni, you should not be looking at elite lifters for training routines. You are a beginner and need volume and frequency on the big 3 lifts. Do this whatever way you want but stop trying to argue that you need all thse other more advanced training variations.

Volume and frequency still works great for me so why shouldn't it work for you.

 

[Sticky]

Because Oni is different, just like all the other 65kg he-she's.

Oni, just so you know, I was 69kg, and much taller and weaker than you 2 years ago.
Im looking forward to you being 2x as strong as me in 24 months.

Goodluck.

 

[jchen]

Morgan,

change your god damn avatar.

That standard silver sphere is sillier than this thread.

 

[0ni]

I'm an advanced bencher and I have always used bench as my main lift. OHP has come and gone depending on my shoulder integrity but bench has been the mainstay.

Spritcha said the same and he's one of the top benchers in Australia...

Do you see the thread here?

I never said that overhead pressing didn't help, but its an assistance exercise for bench.

And you're not a big raw bencher. Most of those raw benchers built their core strength with volume benching and now mainly focus on speed work to allow their tris to keep up with their chest.

Oni, you should not be looking at elite lifters for training routines. You are a beginner and need volume and frequency on the big 3 lifts. Do this whatever way you want but stop trying to argue that you need all thse other more advanced training variations.

Volume and frequency still works great for me so why shouldn't it work for you.

Nice double standards, debunking my idea because it's what big benchers are doing, then using what big benchers are doing to support your own ideals.

And you're not even debating against what I am saying, you seem to have skimmed what I said, thought I said something else and then rambled on about how something that I didn't say isn't a good idea.

>Volume and frequency still works great for me so why shouldn't it work for you.
What part of "pressing daily and benching 3x a week" do you consider low frequency and low volume?

 

[CaT_SPeW]

Guys you are not changing his mind just let him go...

im not sure why everyone wants to change his mind. i for one am interested to see what happens when someone overloads and maxes out all lifts daily, hes either gonna get really strong or crash and burn. probably both either way should be good

 

[walt]

ok

 

[Bench Polkov]

Nice double standards, debunking my idea because it's what big benchers are doing, then using what big benchers are doing to support your own ideals.

And you're not even debating against what I am saying, you seem to have skimmed what I said, thought I said something else and then rambled on about how something that I didn't say isn't a good idea.

>Volume and frequency still works great for me so why shouldn't it work for you.
What part of "pressing daily and benching 3x a week" do you consider low frequency and low volume?

1. I never once said that OHP didn't help bench, just that it wasn't necessary to help your bench. I have only personally given it away due to shoulder issues, but my bench has still gone up without it.
2. You said you were going to focus on pressing as the main lift for bench. This isn't a great strategy at your level as it will more than likely have more carryover for your press and less for your bench than a bench focus would.
3. I know you're book-smart Oni but time and time again you've shown that your practical training knowledge is very poor. We're just trying to help you out.
4. If you make this program work I will applaud you but even then I will believe that you could have made the same goals faster with a simpler program.

 

[0ni]

1. I never once said that OHP didn't help bench, just that it wasn't necessary to help your bench. I have only personally given it away due to shoulder issues, but my bench has still gone up without it.
2. You said you were going to focus on pressing as the main lift for bench. This isn't a great strategy at your level as it will more than likely have more carryover for your press and less for your bench than a bench focus would.
3. I know you're book-smart Oni but time and time again you've shown that your practical training knowledge is very poor. We're just trying to help you out.
4. If you make this program work I will applaud you but even then I will believe that you could have made the same goals faster with a simpler program.

I guess only time will tell then

 

[dandexter]

The part i'm interested to see is about maxing out on squats and (more so) deadlifts frequently.

Its been proven maxing out on squats and squatting almost every day is doable, but deadlifts. As far as I know no one has ever done it.