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Creatine + caffeine

0ni

0ni

Registered Rustler
Anyone got any real info on creatine + caffeine? I see a lot of conflicting info on this but nothing that says 100% if you can or can't.

This study states that caffeine and creatine don't mix:
Caffeine counteracts the ergogenic action of muscl... [J Appl Physiol. 1996] - PubMed result

But this one says it's OK:
The effects of a pre-workout supplement containing caffeine, creatine, and amino acids during three weeks of high-intensity exercise on aerobic and anaerobic performance

These are just two that I've seen, but what are the real details? Anything on strength training performance and muscle gain while taking creatine with caffeine? I've always dissolved my creatine in coffee just because it's warm and mixes easily and seem to get good effect (even though i'll never know) but did I pretty much piss it all down the drain?
 
Easily solved.
If you must use caffeine have it pre workout (obvioulsy for stim effect) and creatine post workout.

Creatine can be taken anytime. No research required...LOL
 
Are there any benefits to timing creatine? Does taking creatine pre and post workout have any benefits to say taking it first thing in the morning and last thing at night?

Thanks
 
From my research once peak saturation levels are reached it matters not when you take it, as long as you take it everyday. Most people take it before or after training because it is more convenient, but you still must take it on non-training days.
For creatine mono, the general consensus is that 5gms per day is enough to maintain peak levels.
 
Ok thanks, I'll take my 5g to maintain last thing at night then, when I have no caffeine in me and just avoid caffeine altogether for the 7 days of loading
 
I take 5 gram of creatine a day, generally half in the morning, and half at night or after my workout.

Timing on this stuff is not critical as it is in your muscles anyway, and you are simply topping up your stores from what I understand.
 
Mick, you have just contradicted yourself.

If timing is not critical why are you splitting doses?

0ni, loading is not necessarry, but if you must take 5gms 4 x per day for 5 days, then 5 gms daily anytime.
 
Shrek said:
Mick, you have just contradicted yourself.

If timing is not critical why are you splitting doses?

0ni, loading is not necessarry, but if you must take 5gms 4 x per day for 5 days, then 5 gms daily anytime.
Click to expand...

I prefer to load because I'm fairly impatient and would rather get my levels up fast. Plus it's less than $20 a key so why not lol
 
loading vs not loading

IOhwG.png
 
Patience vs no patience?

3 weeks in your life of slightly lower creatine levels will not negatively impact your training over the years. Though it is cheap, I would rather not take that much creatine each day.
 
Shrek said:
Mick, you have just contradicted yourself.

If timing is not critical why are you splitting doses?.
Click to expand...

Sort of, but I think that any excess creatine is just discarded by the body, so by topping up the stores twice a day, I will get more usage out of my 5 grams, not sure if this is the case, but makes me feel better anyway:)
 
Excess creatine is removed from the body yes, but it's exactly that, excess creatine. So your stores are still going to be full whether you top them up once a day or 5 times a day.

Think of a jug of water evaporating in the sun and you topping it up with water with the excess flowing. (shit analogy I know but it's sunday 9am)
 
Nice work on the graph Oni, I haven't seen those before but are exactly as expected.

Timing creatine can be somewhat useful early on when levels in the body are building. It does make sense (especially if you don't want to have large doses which can cause side effects) to have the creatine when it will most utilised by the body, which is during training.

After you have dosed it before training for a few weeks it then becomes somewhat irrelevant. Once a day or 5 times a day, it is all about total dose.

It would be great if we could dig up some more info on this subject, I'd like to see a) the minimum amounts of creatine required to maintain "peak saturation" for a given test subject as well as b) what happens when cycling creatine long term in terms of retention levels.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if retention fell due to a number of factors.

If this was so, it would be another reason for cycling creatine.

Reagrding the issues with caffeine, I think they were all debunked years ago. The only thing to consider here would be to ensure fluid levels are kept up is using both as both creatine and caffeine tend to dehydrate badly and as both can assist training performance, the chances of this are higher thanks to a greater possible workload.
 
Bioflex said:
Nice work on the graph Oni, I haven't seen those before but are exactly as expected.

Timing creatine can be somewhat useful early on when levels in the body are building. It does make sense (especially if you don't want to have large doses which can cause side effects) to have the creatine when it will most utilised by the body, which is during training.

After you have dosed it before training for a few weeks it then becomes somewhat irrelevant. Once a day or 5 times a day, it is all about total dose.

It would be great if we could dig up some more info on this subject, I'd like to see a) the minimum amounts of creatine required to maintain "peak saturation" for a given test subject as well as b) what happens when cycling creatine long term in terms of retention levels.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if retention fell due to a number of factors.

If this was so, it would be another reason for cycling creatine.

Reagrding the issues with caffeine, I think they were all debunked years ago. The only thing to consider here would be to ensure fluid levels are kept up is using both as both creatine and caffeine tend to dehydrate badly and as both can assist training performance, the chances of this are higher thanks to a greater possible workload.
Click to expand...

There is a book called 'Essentials of Creatine in Sports and Health' by STOUT (2008) that contains everything you have asked for in it. I have a PDF of the book I scanned in for reading on my computer which I could post up if it's allowed here. I know it's technically piracy but I don't think anything would happen lol.
 
Ok without getting into the unnecessary information, Creatine and Caffeine are fine to use TOGETHER.

From all the credible literature and well put together research into it, Caffeine and actually help with the uptake of Creatine, TO A CERTAIN POINT. From memory, it was up to the point of 300mg of Caffeine (again I'm not 100% sure but it is just sticking out in my mind from when i last read about it). Beyond that point, Caffeine increases the calcium breakdown and due to the lower amount of calcium stores it lowers the amount of uptake for Creatine.

IMO there is no need to take it in 'X' amount of serves per day. Creatine, as like most AA when taken in free form orally the % of it that actually makes it directly to the blood stream and in turn into muscle tissue is low (10% from memory). So like any AA, what your body requires at the time it will use/store and any excess will be oxidized.
 
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