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K

Kapow

New member
Hey guys,

A little background:

In the last 10 months, i have had, 2-3 X-Rays, 1 MRI scan, seen 2 different GP's, 1 knee and hip specialist, 1 rheumatologist and scheduled to see another specialist soon. In regards to that, i have a disease (ankylosing spondylitis) on my hip joint connecting to my lower back spine. Now i first started weight training just before i noticed the pain i was getting through my back and hip. Started of at a measly 50kg and now im at 62kg-63kg. Prior to this, i was doing lower body movements, squats and deadlifts but had to discontinue and only train the upper body. So i have been told that i can still weight train, but the form has to be as strict and perfect as possible. Thing is, i can't deadlift or military press without getting back spasms :( i can squat but at the moment i am using the zercher squat which puts less pressure on my back.

When i first started lifting, i started of with 5x5 and gained around 12-13 kgs, but that has been on and off due to my back and hip. Now i want to start over and i have been reading a lot around this forum for a program and it looks like i want to go on Markos's program:

Squat 3 x 10
Bench press 3 x 8
Bent row 3 x 8
Military press 3 x 8
SLDL 3 x 8
BB curl 3 x 8

Only problem is that i have to find an alternative exercise for the deadlift and military press, and i know there is no other exercise that can be substituted for these 2 lifts, but any suggestions on a program would be much appreciated :)
 
You can do the SLDL but not the DL without pain, interesting? Also who said you could weight train the GP or specialist? From what I have read you should be staying away from any large spinal pressure exercises which includes things like jogging (due to the rapid transfer of force to and up the spine on each footfall) and loading up on the weights.

Have you thought of doing DB exercises such as lunges or step ups, they will be reducing the load on your back which is your number 1 priority right now. Stiff (or straight) leg deads will put large amounts of pressure of your lumbar and lumbosacral joint due having a weight held out in front of you while in flexion. Squatting while not putting the spine at such a bad angle will increase pressure a lot (zercher included) why not try dumbbell squats to negate this even more. Personally I would not do anything that can compromise my spinal health if I was in such a delicate situation. Wait till you have a clear diagnosis and plan for your condition before doing anything rash. Also if you didn't know (i am sure your doctors would have told you but you never know) your lower back spasms to immediately protect your spine, anything similar to those exercises will still be damaging your spine slowly even though your lower back may stop spasming.
 
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dave said:
You can do the SLDL but not the DL without pain, interesting? Also who said you could weight train the GP or specialist? From what I have read you should be staying away from any large spinal pressure exercises which includes things like jogging (due to the rapid transfer of force to and up the spine on each footfall) and loading up on the weights.

Have you thought of doing DB exercises such as lunges or step ups, they will be reducing the load on your back which is your number 1 priority right now. Stiff (or straight) leg deads will put large amounts of pressure of your lumbar and lumbosacral joint due having a weight held out in front of you while in flexion. Squatting while not putting the spine at such a bad angle will increase pressure a lot (zercher included) why not try dumbbell squats to negate this even more. Personally I would not do anything that can compromise my spinal health if I was in such a delicate situation. Wait till you have a clear diagnosis and plan for your condition before doing anything rash. Also if you didn't know (i am sure your doctors would have told you but you never know) your lower back spasms to immediately protect your spine, anything similar to those exercises will still be damaging your spine slowly even though your lower back may stop spasming.
Click to expand...

Yeah i can't pull anything including straight legged deadlifts. During my recent visit with the rheumatologist i had asked him if i could still weight train and he give me the all clear but with precautions with the back, he also preferred me doing rowing movements.

The back spasms not only occur when i pull weights off the floor, but also just simple things like turning around and grabbing a pen or something, but i was told that the physio could help me out with exercises which will slowly stop this issue.

I will look into training with DB's, but i would like to ask, what kind of training approach would you recommend me taking since i cannot add weight very rapidly, would i be more suited at increasing reps of a current weight and then slowly adding weight to progress?

trofius said:
does stretching help?
Click to expand...

Im getting referred to a physio in the coming weeks to assist me with some stretching exercises.
 
How bad is it? Is there a lot of fusion?

I would start light and keep it that way. Make sure you are using strict form and full range and a neutral back position for all exercises. I like lunges for you as you can not load up too high anyways and proper form is keeping a normal curvature of the spine. Keep on the dumbbells and talk to the physio about what you are intending to do see what they say about strengthening of the surrounding musculature to help alleviate some of the stress on the joint(s) in question.
 
dave said:
How bad is it? Is there a lot of fusion?

I would start light and keep it that way. Make sure you are using strict form and full range and a neutral back position for all exercises. I like lunges for you as you can not load up too high anyways and proper form is keeping a normal curvature of the spine. Keep on the dumbbells and talk to the physio about what you are intending to do see what they say about strengthening of the surrounding musculature to help alleviate some of the stress on the joint(s) in question.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by fusion? When i first noticed the problem, it was so bad that i couldn't lift myself out of bed, but i had to try get out of bed and walk to keep the joint flexible, but now it has seemed to calm down, not much pain, feels weird but its going all good at the moment.

Could anyone suggest a program i could follow? i was really looking forward at trying out Markos's beginners program. I still reckon i can squat though, its not as bad as the deadlift or military on the back, how about alternating lunges with squats?
 
With your condition the spine slowly creates more bone around the spine and these eventually fuse the vertebrae together (depending on severity). If squatting doesn't hurt you could do it but it is a risk.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
dave said:
With your condition the spine slowly creates more bone around the spine and these eventually fuse the vertebrae together (depending on severity). If squatting doesn't hurt you could do it but it is a risk.
Posted via Mobile Device
Click to expand...

Ahhh fair enough, i will see how the next specialist appointment goes and also the physio, but i think it should be ok.

Other than that, thanks for your help so far dave, does anyone else have any suggestions on a program? Would it still work without deadlifts and military? opinions?
 
where are you?

maybe you should go see a trainer who can eye what you can and can't do as well as your form and go from there.
 
puff said:
where are you?

maybe you should go see a trainer who can eye what you can and can't do as well as your form and go from there.
Click to expand...

Im in Melbourne, as far as i have experienced so far, i can't deadlift or do standing military press and also the bench press. Bench press seems a surprise but when my back and hips are flexed when lieing down, its very hard for me to get back up without experiencing much pain, so im using the bench that is adjustable which don't allow my hips to go back as far.

How does this look?

Zercher Squat
Bench Press
Bent Rows
Seated Smith Machine Press
 
That will be fine for gains, does not mean its a smart choice you should talk to the physio first and get their opinion.
 
For deadlifts change over to sumo - its a more quad dominated movement and the closer to vertical position creates less spinal sheer.
 
Kapow, since you live in Melbourne, you can go and see Markus in person and he's spot on when he says:
I can show you a stack of alternatives, you can tell me what doesnt hurt.

Much easier than posts on a forum
Click to expand...

Now as far as I'm concerned, I'd like to offer you a totally different alternative here not so much by looking outside the box since it is definitely related to your case, but outside the box in the sense that it has nothing to do with exercising/program as you have requested.

I'm speaking about one of my secrets (which is no longer now) and that is the following:

Methyl Sulfonyl Methane – MSM, as well as magnesium aspartate between 600-800mg of elemental magnesium. Now that is one way (or two) of kissing your muscle spasm good bye...or good ridden rather!

http://www.physicalmag.com/index.php?a=65&p=9

http://www.vitaflex.com/res_lignisulmsm.php


Fadi.
 
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Yeah thanks for that Fadi, ill give em a read.

And yeah, im going to see Markos tomorrow to help me out, can't wait to get it all sorted :)
 
What a lovely young man Kapow is.

He waited patiently for 2 hours for me.

He is a strong and determined lifter for a guy with his condition. We found some good exercises which he could do in relative comfort.

Most with his condition would simply give up, not this little man.

He was blowing pretty hard by the end of the session lol
 
thanks for the kind words Markos.

4 hours worth of travel time, i would say it was ALL worth it.

Really glad i went to see you.

and no joke, that session was very torturous, but as Markos would say, 'Cmon Princess!' haha
 
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