2016 Rio Olympic Games thread

[Stiffy]

The people who are complaining about nasty ASADA guys are generally not in good with the head of their sport.

Pritchard used to bitch and moan about ASADA like a muthfuker. You think he wasn't cozy with head of P.A. Wilks? He was P.A.'s golden boy wasn't he?

 

[Bazza20]

Yeah I'm not saying every athlete is drug free because they are tested. I am asking how those using are beating the tests and being cozy with the testers answer doesn't cut it.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Pritchard used to bitch and moan about ASADA like a muthfuker. You think he wasn't cozy with head of P.A. Wilks? He was P.A.'s golden boy wasn't he?

I can't speak of Pritchard and Wilks' relationship. What I can say is this:

ASADA often works off anonymous tips. ASADA will only do X out of competition tests on each sport each year. Funding and all that. Now, if you were the head of a sport, and you knew some of the athletes were using, and you knew some were not, would it perhaps be useful to give ASADA anonymous tipoffs directing them to test someone you knew was clean? After all, every test on the clean athlete is one less chance to test someone who might be dirty.

If your sport was not yet an Olympic one, would it be more or less likely to become one if drug cheats were discovered and outed? So if you wanted it to be an Olympic one, would it be in your interests to reduce the chances of an athlete testing positive? If you wanted your sport to attract more young people, young people whose mothers decide what sport they'll do, would it be more or less likely to get more young athletes if drug cheats were discovered and outed?

Nobody wants that bad publicity. This is why when lifters test positive in PA they are refused membership of GPC - even though GPC does not test for drugs and has many people who speak openly (among GPC members) of their drug use.

If Russia and China now, or the USA in the 1980s with sprinting or in the 2000s with cycling, could have sports and drug officials collude to suppress positive results, why can't Australia today?

Now consider the athletes. How many will have enough biochemistry knowledge to know when to cycle off to avoid getting caught? Where do they get this knowledge from?

 

[Bazza20]

Kyle you are grasping at straws. You are claiming massive drug use and clean drug tests simply because of some people being friendly with drug testers.

I have no doubt it's happened before but this happening throughout wada tested sports is stretching it. Plus you have zero evidence of your massive claims.

Fuck if the Aussies are all on. Time to change dealer.

 

[Fadi]

I like your posts on the subject Kyle, they're very reasonable. Thank you.

 

[Stiffy]

I can't speak of Pritchard and Wilks' relationship. What I can say is this:

ASADA often works off anonymous tips. ASADA will only do X out of competition tests on each sport each year. Funding and all that. Now, if you were the head of a sport, and you knew some of the athletes were using, and you knew some were not, would it perhaps be useful to give ASADA anonymous tipoffs directing them to test someone you knew was clean? After all, every test on the clean athlete is one less chance to test someone who might be dirty.

Right now Pritchard is kicking down Robert Wilks' front door "you fckn bastard. All those 6AM tests!!!"

 

[Kyle Aaron]

I have no doubt it's happened before but this happening throughout wada tested sports is stretching it.

110% natural, bro.

For reference, here is the German documentary on Russian doping which led to the investigation and subsequent banning of so many Russians (the athletes writing to WADA got no response, it wasn't till this went on telly that anything happened). Now, is it just Russia? Well, note that at one point they tell us that their drug-supplying doctor was asking for a bribe for someone in a Swiss lab. Has this person been identified? Given years of Russian doping without being caught, do you think this person in the Swiss lab was the only one?

Right. So Lance and his team did it for years, and he even successfully sued someone for defamation when they said he was doing it. But that couldn't happen again, and certainly not in Australia. The UCI suppressed Contador's positive test for Clenbuterol. But that could never happen again, and certainly not in Australia.

Marion Jones juiced for years, but never tested positive, and was only caught by her own confession. But that couldn't happen again, and certainly not in Australia. Wade exum showed that 100 US athletes, including Carl Lewis, from 1988-2000 had tested positive but had their results suppressed. But that could never happen again, and certainly not in Australia.

DDR had a state-mandated drug regime, but most never got caught. But that couldn't happen again, and certainly not in Australia.

Bulgaria had a state-mandated drug regime, but most never got caught. But that couldn't happen again, and certainly not in Australia.

Russia had a state-sactioned drug regime, but most never got caught. But that couldn't happen again, and certainly not in Australia.

The US had collusion between sports officials and drug testers for sprinting. But that couldn't happen again, and certainly not in Australia.

Before the 2012 Games Jamaica carried out one out of competition test, claiming they were broke. But that couldn't happen again, and certainly not in Australia.

An Aussie football club had a doping regime, they had dozens of injections, but the head coach, the head physio, the power coach, the strength coach, the Board, even the players knew nothing about it. It was just Dr Frankenstein - er, Dank - and his evil plans. Nobody asked any questions, ever, and if they did they don't remember the answers. Of course this was the only club doing anything like this, and it could couldn't happen again.

Our athletes regularly beat other countries' athletes, and we insist those countries are doping. But not us. No, no. For example, our women swimmers are bigger and faster than the DDR women's swim team ever were, and they were doping, but we would never do that. It's just talent and hard work and brilliant nutrition and great coaching.

It's all those dirty foreigners doing it. Never us True Blues. They have oxandrolone, we don't need that, we have Vegemite!

110% natural, bro.

 

[Bazza20]

110% natural, bro.

For reference, here is the German documentary on Russian doping which led to the investigation and subsequent banning of so many Russians (the athletes writing to WADA got no response, it wasn't till this went on telly that anything happened). Now, is it just Russia? Well, note that at one point they tell us that their drug-supplying doctor was asking for a bribe for someone in a Swiss lab. Has this person been identified? Given years of Russian doping without being caught, do you think this person in the Swiss lab was the only one?

Right. So Lance and his team did it for years, and he even successfully sued someone for defamation when they said he was doing it. But that couldn't happen again, and certainly not in Australia. The UCI suppressed Contador's positive test for Clenbuterol. But that could never happen again, and certainly not in Australia.

Marion Jones juiced for years, but never tested positive, and was only caught by her own confession. But that couldn't happen again, and certainly not in Australia. Wade exum showed that 100 US athletes, including Carl Lewis, from 1988-2000 had tested positive but had their results suppressed. But that could never happen again, and certainly not in Australia.

DDR had a state-mandated drug regime, but most never got caught. But that couldn't happen again, and certainly not in Australia.

Bulgaria had a state-mandated drug regime, but most never got caught. But that couldn't happen again, and certainly not in Australia.

Russia had a state-sactioned drug regime, but most never got caught. But that couldn't happen again, and certainly not in Australia.

The US had collusion between sports officials and drug testers for sprinting. But that couldn't happen again, and certainly not in Australia.

Before the 2012 Games Jamaica carried out one out of competition test, claiming they were broke. But that couldn't happen again, and certainly not in Australia.

An Aussie football club had a doping regime, they had dozens of injections, but the head coach, the head physio, the power coach, the strength coach, the Board, even the players knew nothing about it. It was just Dr Frankenstein - er, Dank - and his evil plans. Nobody asked any questions, ever, and if they did they don't remember the answers. Of course this was the only club doing anything like this, and it could couldn't happen again.

Our athletes regularly beat other countries' athletes, and we insist those countries are doping. But not us. No, no. For example, our women swimmers are bigger and faster than the DDR women's swim team ever were, and they were doping, but we would never do that. It's just talent and hard work and brilliant nutrition and great coaching.

It's all those dirty foreigners doing it. Never us True Blues. They have oxandrolone, we don't need that, we have Vegemite!

110% natural, bro.

Relax with the 110% natural call. It's not funny you don't sound cool, you are not Markos and I'm not under the illusion that that Aussies never use gear in sports.

Also Armstrong got banned, essendon got caught, Russians are always getting banned. So what's happened to your theory there.

You have made massive accusations with zero evidence. You are claiming people can cheat because of corrupt testers. It's a big claim and very very tough to keep under raps. Most people can't keep anything quiet. There is a lot of people to keep quiet if what you say, with zero proof, is right.

I'll say it again. Our athletes weren't that good.

Do these accusations come from you not being able to train anyone close to these elite levels so everyone else must be on roids?

 

[Fadi]

................................

 

[Stiffy]

You have made massive accusations with zero evidence. You are claiming people can cheat because of corrupt testers. It's a big claim and very very tough to keep under raps. Most people can't keep anything quiet. There is a lot of people to keep quiet if what you say, with zero proof, is right.

^this

You can't compare the former Communist East Germany or Putin's Russia with Australia.

We have much greater governance, internal controls and accountability. Ffs, we have elections every 3 odd years. A shuffling of Bureaucrats (rotation of duties) meaning a systemic doping program at the A.I.S. would be extremely difficult to cover up and sustain.

We also have an effective Media and Federal Opposition who would love to find out that there is systemic doping at the A.I.S.


In Russia and former East Germany you talk we shoot!!!

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Markos would never say "110% natural", he is not against using drugs for performance, only against using drugs for fun. He thinks the whole thing is a farce. But he is less cynical than me, he thinks WADA is honest but misguided, I don't think they're honest.

You didn't watch the documentary, Bazza. Nor the article I linked the other day. Like Conte I ask: why not give Usain Bolt an isotopic test? These and other things make it plain that it goes beyond Russia to the IAAF and WADA. Which means it won't just be Russia. This was the same with the cycling guys. The federation protected them.

Look, I don't care too much if people want to take drugs, if I'm not training them. I am not personally offended that Armstrong cheated - he is a lying arsehole, but this is probably what it takes to get that level of glory and money. The heads of Westpac or Nabisco or the Vice-Chancellor of Woop Woop University are probably not nice and honest chappies, either.

Drug-taking is retarded and you shouldn't do it, but in the end if you want to jump off a cliff to impress your mates well then good luck to you, just don't involve me in the process. If it were a big deal to me I would have my lifters go to PA, where at least they might be tested (especially since they'd be clean so they'd be a good target for "anonymous" tipoffs) instead of GPC, which is untested.

But let's not bullshit ourselves. To me the issues with drugs in sport are two.

Firstly the health issues. Most of the drugs are not given under medical supervision, so people can and do stuff themselves up; and if there is medical supervision, the focus is on the person's performance, not health.

Secondly, lots of young kids spend hours a day 5-6 days a week for 5 years or so before they reach a certain level. And all that time, all those early mornings, all those injuries worked through, all those tough training sessions, all that time everyone was making pious statements about "drugs are bad, m'kay?" and then they reach a certain level and realise: the best ones are juicing. And then they have to make a choice. And it will be very, very hard for them to turn away from it all. It's like getting a massive mortgage and then finding out you're working for Lehman Brothers.

Yes, it's hard to keep these things quiet. But in fact it's not kept quiet, talk to anyone at top levels and you hear things, but: even if athletes write to WADA it does nothing until there's a tv documentary about it. Russia has 2-3 weightlifters get pinged, serve their suspensions, another 2-3 get pinged now, IOC says, "ban them all!" and the whole team is out... meanwhile Jamaica has 2-3 runners get pinged, serve their suspensions, another 2-3 get pinged now, IOC says, "welcome, our fast brothers!" Why the difference? One documentary.

Nobody has an interest in blowing all this open. It stuffs up the sport and mothers tell their children they can't go to practice after all. Cycling is still recovering from Armstrong, and he never even tested positive.

I don't do this in the hopes of making elite athletes. With weights you can change lives.

 

[Stiffy]

Nobody has an interest in blowing all this open.
.

Yes they do: the Media, the Federal Opposition, and past and present A.I.S. Athletes and Staff with a grievance against A.I.S. staff etc would love to expose a systemic doping program at the A.I.S.

Past and present A.I.S. Athletes or Staff who want a massive pay cheque from 60 Minutes etc would love to blow all this open.

Our entire system is based on these types of internal controls.

 

[WoodyAllen]

So apart from living in a backwater country, which do still get some testing, how do you know when to drop using test to avoid getting picked up on random out of comp testing.

I dunno, but when you think about it, your question applies to all of those who have been using oral steroids and peptides. How did they get away with it with random testing?

Good question.

(PS mebbe the peptide tests are a recent new process, but still..... all that stana and turinabol. Hmmmmmm.)

 

[WoodyAllen]

Relax with the 110% natural call. It's not funny you don't sound cool, you are not Markos and I'm not under the illusion that that Aussies never use gear in sports.

Also Armstrong got banned, essendon got caught, Russians are always getting banned. So what's happened to your theory there.

You have made massive accusations with zero evidence. You are claiming people can cheat because of corrupt testers. It's a big claim and very very tough to keep under raps. Most people can't keep anything quiet. There is a lot of people to keep quiet if what you say, with zero proof, is right.

I'll say it again. Our athletes weren't that good.

Do these accusations come from you not being able to train anyone close to these elite levels so everyone else must be on roids?

Bazza. Mate. That was a very lucid response. I got a boner. Good work.

Here is a stamp for your hand:

 

[Bazza20]

Yes they do: the Media, the Federal Opposition, and past and present A.I.S. Athletes and Staff with a grievance against A.I.S. staff etc would love to expose a systemic doping program at the A.I.S.

Past and present A.I.S. Athletes or Staff who want a massive pay cheque from 60 Minutes etc would love to blow all this open.

Our entire system is based on these types of internal controls.

Yeah look at the backlash over Armstrong. He lost 10s of millions in sponsorship.

Aussie public has a very clean image of their athletes. It would be huge news if the media had any proof of it.

If any country could keep systemic cheating out of the media it would be Russia and we have heard about it over here.

All it would take is one ASADA tester who got picked on by the footy players at school to expose the whole thing. I'm guessing there is more than one of those in Australia. Hey I know, zero proof, but it's pretty fucking likely for the sort of person that job attracts.

 

[spartacus]

lost of bs on this thread; fortunately woody and bazza are on right track to keep the debate sane.

 

[spartacus]

As for ASADa and USADA alone, they are now right up there as being best in world. not perfect, but improving. I think next thing would be to make rules that put all types of tests on public record. after all, we pay for tests and public should have some input through their observations.

also, how would conte fucking know what tests are being given to Bolt. they used the test on gatlin before when they caught him, and I suspect they still do.

I love listening to people with conspiracy and corruption theories; reinforces how sane others can be to help balance the ledger.

As for microdosing, who knows how it is done. if it was easy to know then everyone would be running fast. They are not. In fact, I intend to quantify the decline in performances after this IAAf season is finished.

I suggested
"It also been suggested that the use of carbon isotope ratio testing to distinguish between natural and synthetic testosterone, which has resulted in athletes being caught even when passing the T/E ratio of four to one (including Gatlin), may not be detected in urine because of low concentrations.
http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/08/29/bolt-versus-gatlin-is-not-a-case-of-good-versus-evil/

 

[spartacus]

also, it was great three chinese gold medalists in weightlifting got caught from past championships. It will place even greater pressure on the IWF to clean the sport up, along with track and field.

 

[WoodyAllen]

lost of bs on this thread; fortunately woody and bazza are on right track to keep the debate sane.

Yes. Bazza and I are the voice of moderation, reason and intelligence on this forum. That does not bode well for the rest of you phukwits and kuntz.

 

[WoodyAllen]

also, how would conte fucking know what tests are being given to Bolt. they used the test on gatlin before when they caught him, and I suspect they still do.

Yes, a bit of transparency would be nice. I guy I know from my fed got piss tested and the results were negative. At least he thinks so as a year later he has not heard a peep. No clearance, no results, no "well done" pat on the back, no customs house search at 3am. So he thinks probably maybe that he is clear (especially since he was only on coffee and gummy worms) or they dropped the jar on the way out to the car and thought, fukket, let's go home.

Who knows.