How much muscle before starting plyometrics?

Good evening

I'm a basketball player who's been trying to improve his vertical jump.

My current exercise routine is as follows, using a 49.604 lbs [22.5 kg] and 27.557 lbs [12.5kg] dumbbells.

I train everyday, alternating between the following routines;
What would you recommend I add/change/remove in order to improve my vertical jump?

Or is it your professional opinion that I haven't yet built up enough muscle to begin plyometrics?

Interested in receiving your advice.

Thank you,

Barry_

FYI: I'm about 6"2, 80-85kg, with a current vertical jump of back-board, and sometime bottom of metal [part of the ring which lodges to the backboard]

Barry, you need to start lifting heavy what you are doing is not working. You could start plyo's now but that would not include much besides basic light exercises.

You really need to work on your strength program as that will probably give you the most height increase as your jump sounds quite bad for your height so you most likely can not generate enough power to move yourself explosively.

You mentioned that I should work on my strength program, I'm guessing that means increasing the barbell & dumbbell weights?

Anything that really overloads you. I would suggest a workout such as Starting Strength which you can find info on in Beginners look here thread which is a sticky in the strength training forum. Do this and play basketball and you should get fair bit stronger.

How old are you by the way?

Just for a comparison when I played I was 6'3 95kg and could get a third of my forearm over the rim and I considered myself to have an average jump compared to a lot of people I played with or against.

dave you seem to have a lot of knowledge about increasing the vertical jump.

so you recommend:

- build a solid strength foundation first. get strong first.
- then look into some power movements, like power cleans and ...?
anything else to it?

thanks in advance.

Barry, this is the one millionth time you have asked about vertical leap, and youre still training like a 9yo girl.

If at 6'2" your not dunking, your either

a/ a girl
b/ in a wheelchair
c/ playing the wrong sport

I've told you before I have 5' 8" kids hanging off the ring off 1 step, and they dont do any of the exercises you do

You just ask, but never do, you waste everyones time

powerclean
squat
deadlift
push press

Thats all you need to do, with 10 x the weight you currently own.

Depends on who you are Alvin. I will compare you and Barry. Barry here is tall probably does not have much reactive strength (good use of SSC) and obviously is not strong enough, he needs to focus on getting stronger and slowly building up his reactive strength ability. Once he has a good strong base and has increased his ability to use the SSC he will be ready to go into a more power focussed program. Markos gave him 4 exercise he really needs to start doing, they are pretty much what I would tell him to do to.

Now you on the other hand are a strong little ****er already so you are ready for more power work and it would be good for you to include plyometric work to increase your reactive strength (I do not know where it is for you but you can test it as it says in the Vertical Jump Bible which I know you have). If being super strong does not interest you as much as being able to dunk on someone as tall as me and laugh in their face then you may want to bring in a lot more power work (you still need to work on your maximal strength but it kind of takes a backseat in preference of maximal power). Markos AAA may be good for you, talk to him about it as I do not know what is in it. A well designed program would be much better than just bringing in a crap load of weighted jumps and cleans for some of your squatting and deads.

So basically Barry is too heavy for his strength whilst you are already quite strong for your bodyweight. It is important for someone like Barry (I am in this boat aswell just not to his degree) to get a lot stronger as he obviously is not naturally springy like some guys. I can not remember correctly but I (about 5 years back) created a program for a uni assignment. It was designed to increase my power outputs and strength as tested in the field and the lab. Field wise was my 10, 20 and 40m times, vertical and some lifts. If I could find my data I could be more accurate but in the 6 weeks of the test my deadlift went up 20kg, my vertical went up about 3-4 inches and my sprint times were down. This program was basically short sprints, plyo's (depth jumps etc), heavy weights and power exercises (weighted jumps, power cleans). It worked and looking back on it I do not even consider it a well designed program. By increasing my strength and working on expressing that strength as quickly as I could I got a lot more explosive. If I had been stronger than I was I could have definitely made greater gains in my jump and sprint times. If you look at Olympic lifters you will see that they are good jumpers even if they are heavy.

thank you very much for the explanation dave, not so sure about the "strong ****er" part though... haha, when i jump without a full knee bend and gather, i can barely get off the ground! terrible lol.

i've already bought AAA and i'll give it a good cycle after i squat 180kg. it'll be nice to try some different training.

good luck Barry, hope your training goes well.

when i jump without a full knee bend and gather, i can barely get off the ground! terrible lol.

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That sounds like you have poor reactive strength to me, guys with good use of their SSC can do a slight bend and boom. I know you have the vertical jump bible, there is a test in there which would be good for you. It involves jumping off of boxes untill your jump height is lower than your normal jump. Try it out.

There are two types of people in this world;
Ignorant and stupid.
We are all ignorant to a degree but we can learn through experience.
Barry; Are you the type that continually pisses on an electric fence?

Get your dead ass under the bar and squat.
Squat everyday; 3x10, 20 rep, 3x10, chin-up, push-up.

This is simple stuff everybody.
If you still cannot jump after squatting 1.5 times your body weight, look for another sport, table tennis is fun, you can't make chicken soup out of chicken sh1t.
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Silverback;

What about Situps, Bench-Press, Rows, Deadlift, Millitary Press & Plank?

Should I continue doing them [in the same routine order] except putting Squats in both routines with the number of reps you recommended?

Barry_ said:

Silverback;

What about Situps, Bench-Press, Rows, Deadlift, Millitary Press & Plank?

Should I continue doing them [in the same routine order] except putting Squats in both routines with the number of reps you recommended?

Click to expand...

Give it a crack, I want you to get as strong as an ox, but not as dumb.
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Good timing today.

Max had his vertical tested at school today, first time in 12 months.

Standing jump was 30" (75cm) and one step was 34" (85cm)

Its a pity they dont test running.

As a reference, at 5'8", he can hang off the ring with a step.

Still working on revising my routine...

In the meantime, I've upped my barbell to 30kg & my dumbbell to 15kg.

I've also added Goblet Squats [3x10] to both of my workouts.

Please continue providing advice with how to improve my routine so I can achieve my goals,

Thank you,

Barry_

Still working on revising my routine...

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No offence intended here Barry I am just telling you the honest truth, you do not understand how to increase your strength properly. You have not had the education nor the experience to properly write a program so you should not be revising anything. Go do Starting Strength or PTC's beginners program, get some strength and keep playing your sports in a years time you should be a lot stronger a lot more educated and you should be able to move on from there. Hell if you are lucky in 6 months you will be there. But until then just stick to a good program from a coach who knows how to make people stronger or better yet go find a strength coach to help you out. Stop revising and making your own programs, it is getting you no where.

Starting strength has you pretty much power cleaning twice a week and with all the squatting you will get a lot more stronger and more powerful and you will find you can touch the rim in no time.

Thanks Dave, although I actually received the aforementioned workouts from a forum [in fact, twas this one!]

haz has been instrumental with creating & modifying my current workout regime

dave said:

No offence intended here Barry I am just telling you the honest truth, you do not understand how to increase your strength properly. You have not had the education nor the experience to properly write a program so you should not be revising anything. Go do Starting Strength or PTC's beginners program, get some strength and keep playing your sports in a years time you should be a lot stronger a lot more educated and you should be able to move on from there. Hell if you are lucky in 6 months you will be there. But until then just stick to a good program from a coach who knows how to make people stronger or better yet go find a strength coach to help you out. Stop revising and making your own programs, it is getting you no where.

Starting strength has you pretty much power cleaning twice a week and with all the squatting you will get a lot more stronger and more powerful and you will find you can touch the rim in no time.

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Thanks, but I'd rather do a routine geared specifically for basketball

That comment pretty much shows your knowledge limits. If you want to get better at basketball you practice jump shots, dribbling, learn plays and how to read the opposition, practice plays, practice layups etc etc. If you want to jump higher and run faster you get stronger you work on explosive movements. If you want to be fitter for basketball you work on your conditioning by sprinting and have low rest periods. A strength training program is not specific to basketball, you can have more sports specific where you train more explosive movements than pure strength movements, but you still will work a lot on your strength. The fact you can just touch the board at your height shows you are extremely weak for your height and that you need to increase your strength to overcome this. What you are doing now will not get you there, it was good to get you started and ready for heavy weight training but it and anything like it is useless now.
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I can touch the thing connecting the ring to the backboard now...

For someone who's about 6'1, it's pretty bad...

But I'm trying to get better!

What's the fastest way to improve my vertical jump, specifically for basketball?

I say troll.