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More than 30,000 Americans die from gun violence every year...

bozodos said:
I also think that a lot of the anti gun case is based on hyperbole and emotion, ...
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Now I have already agreed with you earlier that the media (which you obviously believe when it suites), does serve a particular agenda. Hillary Clinton came out today saying the following:

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Now we both know; president Obama knows, the whole world knows, that a very high percentage of those 33,000 death are due to suicide by a gun and not being shot by a second party. However I did some further digging to see the number of American soldiers killed in Afghanistan between 2001 to 2010. They ranged from 12 in 2001, to 499 in 2010. That's in one whole year in a battle zone. From my point of view, it's very hard to argue the case for owning a gun, when you compare the statistics. Something is not adding up here. You like shooting? Fine, find yourself a shooting club where your gun remains under lock and key there until it's used for sport. So far, this is my view, as there hasn't been a convincing argument from the pro gun lobby and their supporters to persuade me over to their camp. My mind is still open for perhaps a more convincing argument from the pro gun owners.
 
Fadi said:
Now I have already agreed with you earlier that the media (which you obviously believe when it suites), does serve a particular agenda. Hillary Clinton came out today saying the following:

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Now we both know; president Obama knows, the whole world knows, that a very high percentage of those 33,000 death are due to suicide by a gun and not being shot by a second party. However I did some further digging to see the number of American soldiers killed in Afghanistan between 2001 to 2010. They ranged from 12 in 2001, to 499 in 2010. That's in one whole year in a battle zone. From my point of view, it's very hard to argue the case for owning a gun, when you compare the statistics. Something is not adding up here. You like shooting? Fine, find yourself a shooting club where your gun remains under lock and key there until it's used for sport. So far, this is my view, as there hasn't been a convincing argument from the pro gun lobby and their supporters to persuade me over to their camp. My mind is still open for perhaps a more convincing argument from the pro gun owners.
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You're making a big assumption that people there won't kill themselves via other methods. Hilary (a most despicable person as well) is using gun control as a soapbox, rather than trying to find any meaningful solutions. How about addressing the mental health and social issues that are driving 30000 people a year to kill themselves? Per capita, the US is number 50 worldwide in terms of suicide rates by all methods. The US is 12.1, ours is 10.6 to compare. Until I looked at the stats, I was under the impression that suicide was at a much higher rate than here to be honest.

Why should my guns be locked up at a club when I am not a criminal and of sound mental health? That would be a hugely expensive waste of time, and a huge security risk.
@Repacked; call me cynical, but I feel that it's yet another way that firearm owners can possibly be persecuted there. It's not like there's been precedents of people losing or misusing large amounts of ammunition.
 
bozodos said:
Why should my guns be locked up at a club when I am not a criminal and of sound mental health? That would be a hugely expensive waste of time, and a huge security risk. @Repacked; call me cynical, but I feel that it's yet another way that firearm owners can possibly be persecuted there. It's not like there's been precedents of people losing or misusing large amounts of ammunition.
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I do believe that centralising firearm storage is a bad idea and is potentially very counter productive. Be glad that the Greens do not have the ability to make this reality, and have some faith that even our dimmest legislators have the common sense to see the dangers of this also. As for the ammo situation, I would be interested to know why this legislation is being proposed, it didn't just come out of the blue. The reality is that it will have no tangible effect on 99% of shooters, and I would imagine even less in regional areas where the relationship between residents/local police and local firearm dealers/sports stores is likely to be closer than in the city.
 
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Fadi said:
I think Mr. Cruz would be wise to do some proper research on Australia before speaking out about us, or using (abusing) us for his findings.
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I agree. Given that we didn't have concealed or open carry pre 96 anyway, the only rapes which could have potentially been prevented would have been those perpetrated as part of a home invasion etc.
 
hey [MENTION=12011]vonfram88[/MENTION] seeing your twisted mind would think someone would make up being from dunblane, this is for you.

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hope you feel good about yourself.
 
Johnnie Walker said:
hey @vonfram88 seeing your twisted mind would think someone would make up being from dunblane, this is for you.

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hope you feel good about yourself.
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I feel fantastic. I survived a Christopher Reeve type injury and I have a great family. My life is stable, how about yours? I'm going to post a picture of Mars and claim to be from there.

Before the irrational types resort to their usual pathologisation of gun owners do some research. When you look past the value-laden, anti gun-dominated advocacy of certain researchers and get down to the cold hard numbers and facts, there is no rational argument for restricting firearms.

From the 2015 Senate References Committee:
United Kingdom
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]1.210 The United Kingdom has some of the strictest gun laws in the world. In 1997 the UK banned all handguns. Only police officers, members of the armed forces, or individuals with written permission from the Home Secretary may lawfully own a handgun.190
1.211 The ban did not reduce the number of active shooters. Pistol clubs turned to pistol calibre carbines, which are more powerful and have higher capacity magazines. The UK has also reported an increase in homicide with pistols and in terms of crime: 'the ban on handguns is neither here nor there in the equation'.191
1.212 It is reasonable to conclude that the banning of certain categories of firearm only affects those who possess and use them lawfully. Those who use them unlawfully are already outside the law.

Baker & Phedran, 2015. (International Journal of Criminal Justice) - The Firearms Law restrictions post-1996 had no effect on gun homicide rates, which were already in decline since 1964. - "..there is little association between legal firearms ownership and firearm homicide"

The claims of an accelerated fall in rate of gun homicides or suicides post 1996 made by lunatics like Alpers (2015) has been refuted by real empirical studies and statistical analyses; (Klieve, Barnes & De Leo, 2009 - these authors are especially anti gun but the stats don't lie!). Leigh & Neill 2010 who are economists found very little evidence that the gun-buyback made any difference to homicide rates, even after they fiddled the tests to try to make an argument for gun control. All of the anti-gunners try to find their own kind of truth by easing the tests for significance to p 0.10 or greater which is a joke and would be rejected by any quantitative social researcher.

McPhedran, 2013 writing for the Journal of Crime Prevention and Community Safety, found that;

"No evidence was found to suggest that increasing numbers of legally owned fi rearms are associated with increasing levels of crime; rather, modest negative associations were found between levels of legal gun ownership and violent fi earm crime."






In 2011 there were more than 2.7 million licensed firearms in Australia (Bricknell 2012). Each gun owner has 2.7 firearms (derived from Mouzos 2002). So in 2011 there were 900,000 people have guns which is more than 5% of the Adult Population of Australia.

Going by the financial performance of the gun importers and retailers and the sheer numbers of customers through the door, there is more than anecdotal evidence that the rate of ownership is increasing. We will soon comprise 10% of the adult population and the rest of you can just go fuck off. Gun Laws will be eased.



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And before someone chimes in with some statistics from the USA in order to conflate AUSTRALIAN gun ownership with violence and death, we are not the USA and the cultural and historical differences between the two countries make any such imputation completely worthless.

There's no "gun culture" in Australia; there are however an increasingly large number of people who are sick and tired of their lawful ownership of firearms being attacked by strawmen.
 
I'm glad you've survived what is considered a horrific and disabling injury Von, and I sincerly wish you a full and speedy recovery sir.
 
bozodos said:
I don't feel any more secure for owning firearms - the opposite actually, as I have to always ensure that I'm following the law. You'll find that firearm owners are some of the most law abiding citizens out there, because we have to be.

.
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Causative statement 1: Lawful behaviour enables gun ownership.

Reciprocal Causative Statement: Gun Ownership enables Lawful behaviour.

I follow the second statement. I enjoy gun ownership so much it makes me behave myself and self monitor. No road rage. No threats of violence. No menacing behaviour. If I didn't own guns I might have beaten or strangled dozens of people to death by now, which would reduce my meat bill considerably but if I ever was caught, the conviction would preclude me from legally owning a gun.
 
Fadi said:
I'm glad you've survived what is considered a horrific and disabling injury Von, and I sincerly wish you a full and speedy recovery sir.
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InshAllah the paralysis in my shoulder and incessant headaches will be remedied within another few months.
 
vonfram88 said:
InshAllah the paralysis in my shoulder and incessant headaches will be remedied within another few months.
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InshAllah brother, God Willing all will be back to normal and you'll be back to better than you ever were before this adversity hit. You're here despite all the odds, and there's a reason for that. I'm glad to see you back on the forum that's a certainty.
 
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Fadi said:
InshAllah brother, God Willing all will be back to normal and you'll be back to better than you ever were before this adversity hit. You're here despite all the odds, and there's a reason for that. I'm glad to see you back on the forum that's a certainty.
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I feel a great warmth from your words Fadi.

A month after my crash I decided to return to academe and study things that have no economic merit whatsoever. I was really suffering some physical pain even trying to sit up for more than a few hours. Two of my classmates are international students of your faith. They brought me warm apple tea and cakes. These deeds make me shed tears.
 
vonfram88 said:
I feel a great warmth from your words Fadi.

A month after my crash I decided to return to academe and study things that have no economic merit whatsoever. I was really suffering some physical pain even trying to sit up for more than a few hours. Two of my classmates are international students of your faith. They brought me warm apple tea and cakes. These deeds make me shed tears.
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Praise be all to God brother for giving you the perseverance, steadfastness, and faith in Him. Many lose faith under such trial and tribulations. It's not just the physical that is testing you to your ultimate limits now no...that would be half the battle...it's the internal emotions, those negative chatter boxes that come to haunt us when we think of our situation. You've come a long way, however the journey is not over yet...you've been chosen for some serious personal growth, and growing in stature you most certainly are...on more than one level..., the psychological, the physical, the emotional, and above all else, the spiritual. May God Bless you brother, and ease your journey back to wherever you wish to be!
 
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