why i converted from BB to PL?

deep said:

Hamish in the body builder comp.

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oh lol

Strength is essential in every sport. In fact, all else being equal, the stronger athlete will usually win.

Fortunately, of all the factors that contribute to winning, strength is be far the easiest to improve.

I don't believe a method of training idioligy has much to do with how one looks.
I actually believe that the "bodybiulder" look is due to poor leverages (bone structure).

The only variables are the tolerances one can stand (HIT versus volume.) and the method one chooses.
A good example here is Draper and Mentzer.

AndyMitchell said:

I think trentzor has had an epiphany; that you cannot make chicken soup out of chicken shit.

Functional training, what is it?

There seems to be an emphases on "functional strength" and performance in the weight training world, even for those that don't play a sport.
I think this may be because many of the people writing articles and publishing books these days work with athletes, not bodybuilders.

To look better physically, more than any single factor, is the primary reason people exercise. I’m all for bodybuilding for bodybuilding’s sake alone.

But back to functional strength.
Most athletes and coaches have completely missed the mark when it comes to functional or sport-specific strength.
The whole idea centers on transfer.
What you do in practice must transfer productively to a game, or it shouldn’t be included, right?

Lastly no one is correct and no one is right.
As I've stated before; bodybiulders will benefit training like power lifters from time to time and visa-versa.

And finally, you show me a team that were they all benche 200 and I'll show you a team that spends too much time in the gym and not enough time on the track, practicing their skills.

These are my thoughts, looking at Trent's self actulization reminds me of me at that point in time.

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Agreed.

It is however a balance when most of the these young athletes at my gym want to cross over into the aesthetics realm. There is no functional benefit if your say a basketballer and having a 6 pack with big arms.

AndyMitchell said:

Strength is essential in every sport. In fact, all else being equal, the stronger athlete will usually win.

Fortunately, of all the factors that contribute to winning, strength is be far the easiest to improve.

I don't believe a method of training idioligy has much to do with how one looks.
I actually believe that the "bodybiulder" look is due to poor leverages (bone structure).

The only variables are the tolerances one can stand (HIT versus volume.) and the method one chooses.
A good example here is Draper and Mentzer.

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Totally agree with this just sad Australian sport does not agree seeing as though we prob have one of the worst strength and conditioning development systems for athletes in the world...

TrentZor said:

Agreed.

It is however a balance when most of the these young athletes at my gym want to cross over into the aesthetics realm. There is no functional benefit if your say a basketballer and having a 6 pack with big arms.

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I meant to say; Lastly no one is wrong and no one is right.

Hehe, spot-on Trent.
A coach needs to be aware of this, especially if this dude is spending hours in the gym and less time doing drills on the court.

YEAAABUDDDY said:

I'll reply more when I have time...but this comment caught my eye....no it will not be the healthiest you'll ever be...being overly "shredded" for a human natrual or not is very UNhealthy thing to do for long periods of time......

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bull said:

Pistachio, you are basically talking about doing a proper contest prep to get as lean as you intend to and I say go for it but it won't be the healthiest that you have been. Joel is right about that. Bodyfat has functions in health and maintaining low levels for extended periods is not good for you. Short periods won't hurt you though so get lean and see what you have built and then come back up to 10 or 12 percent and you can be the healthiest you have ever been there.

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Hmm, maybe I'll just start a new thread about this, so as not to derail "Trent's epiphany thread" (As it should have been titled)

Training a team of men in the gym can be challenging at best.
When you need to factor in, there needs, work ethic, intelligence, the ability to listen to instruction, the ego.
It's easier and wrong to just throw a generic template at it based on what I term "cherry picking 101"

But my philosophy and duty of care in relation sport related strength training is injury prevention and improving ROM which are just some of the by-products of strength training.

AndyMitchell said:

Training a team of men in the gym can be challenging at best.
When you need to factor in, there needs, work ethic, intelligence, the ability to listen to instruction, the ego.
It's easier and wrong to just throw a generic template at it based on what I term "cherry picking 101"

But my philosophy and duty of care in relation sport related strength training is injury prevention and improving ROM which are just some of the by-products of strength training.

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Totally agree mate....I trained an act rugby development squad and I had to limit it to 10 players because when you get to 15-20 + its just way to much and takes away from the training...they might aswell just be let loose in a commerical gym to do whatever they like...

Function is way too over emphasised by lifters or coaches. Every exercise has a function and they are all useful in the real world. When I'm checking a fence and I find a tree over it I can often shift it by hand. The strength and technique that I have developed from what is effectively bodybuilding training transfers nicely into the real world regardless of what some fitball balancing coach might tell you.

I can see both sides of the iron game, I want to lift heavy and get stronger, but I also want to look like I lift (bodybuilding).
From a functional standpoint, I believe one must consider what function are they after. What I mean by that is this; If you train for a sport, than including weight training for that sport will be specific for it, so it will be functional training. However, if one is committed to body building than one will train specifically for bodybuilding, so that will entail functional training that promotes body building. IMO both form of training are functional for what the individual wants. So how does one train for 'functional' training that will develop usable strength in an everyday way? I believe the answer is to train in a variety of ways, do strength specific training and body building......not at the same time, its best to focus on one or the other but over the course of a year or two, you can include both ways.

To comment on the OP, I can understand your viewpoint Trentzor as developing strength is a worthy goal and one that I believe takes the most effort and concentration to develop to a very high level. But I also think aesthetics are important, I say this as I have none as of yet, i don't care for the Zyzz look but being overall happy with ones appearance is definitely one of the goals I am after. You have a good body fat % Trent and I can understand you not worrying about how you look as much as I do about myself. But add 40% body fat to your frame and then tell me you don't care......I would call bull shit to anyone who says this.

Less about zyzz, more about Reg Park.

Am I correct in saying that being physical strong, both muscular and skeletal, is quite healthy and important for quality of life as you age? That would be a pretty fucntional benefit of being as strong as you can.

Franco Columbu said:

Am I correct in saying that being physical strong, both muscular and skeletal, is quite healthy and important for quality of life as you age? That would be a pretty fucntional benefit of being as strong as you can.

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Bloody oath mate.

I think some peoples interpretation of functional strength basically means;

If I want some to kick further I'll stick a weight on their foot and tell them to imitate the action.

Tell them to do ballistic movements as a means to be faster.

That is insanity and dangerous.

If you think about the range of human actions that are involved in sports and everyday life, it really comes down to the following:

- walk
- run
- push/press
- picking up from the ground
- pull

- squat / kneel / lunge
- jump

then throw in some less basic actions,
- climb
- crawl
- throw
- punch
- kick
- swim
I'm sure i've missed a few.

Performance in running, squatting/kneeling/lunging, jump, crawling and lifting - all the basic actions involving the legs, all primarily rely on hip extension, or a combination of hip and knee extension.

Squatting and deadlifting is primarily hip extension, while the rest of your body is loaded. Can't get much more bang for buck than that. One you have a bar on your back, the other you pulling the bar from the ground.

Bench press believe it or not involves hip extension too, but its isometric.

If people doubt the functionality of powerlifting, between the powerlifts you have pretty much every basic human action covered. What is misses, eg pressing overhead, is usually incorporated into powerlifting training anyway.

DREADLIFT said:

Less about zyzz, more about Reg Park.

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lol +1

just do the opposite of everyone in a commercial gym and you will do well.

Franco Columbu said:

Am I correct in saying that being physical strong, both muscular and skeletal, is quite healthy and important for quality of life as you age? That would be a pretty fucntional benefit of being as strong as you can.

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correct.

Franco Columbu said:

Am I correct in saying that being physical strong, both muscular and skeletal, is quite healthy and important for quality of life as you age? That would be a pretty fucntional benefit of being as strong as you can.

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Absolutely correct, probably the most functional benefit of all.

Say you have a power lifter and a strongman. Similar size. PL out lifts the strong man in DL 1rm. Strongman beats PL at atlas stones. Which is "stronger?" More functional?

I saw a guy cycle 40km @ 36km/h on sunday. I asked if he was a cyclist. He said, "no, I'm a mountaineer, but I use cycling to keep fit."

TLS said:

Say you have a power lifter and a strongman. Similar size. PL out lifts the strong man in DL 1rm. Strongman beats PL at atlas stones. Which is "stronger?" More functional?

I saw a guy cycle 40km @ 36km/h on sunday. I asked if he was a cyclist. He said, "no, I'm a mountaineer, but I use cycling to keep fit."

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I think now we are just splitting hairs here lol....

TLS said:

Say you have a power lifter and a strongman. Similar size. PL out lifts the strong man in DL 1rm. Strongman beats PL at atlas stones. Which is "stronger?" More functional?

I saw a guy cycle 40km @ 36km/h on sunday. I asked if he was a cyclist. He said, "no, I'm a mountaineer, but I use cycling to keep fit."

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Strongmen use powerlifting training to get strong then train events for the technique, conditioning and transfer. Then strongman and powerlifting training are both often used to develop functional strength in other sports.

Take from thar what you will but I don't really think there's a correct answer to your question.