The body recomposition equation, goal lifts for goal size

[MikeW]

Hi Guys,

Nice little web page I just stumbled upon after following another link in this other thread.

The following link shows a formula for calculating in rough terms what your goal lifts should be in dead/squat/bench based on your target bodyweight and bodyfat percent.

The body composition equation

For me, I'm aiming to get to 80kg bodyweight with about 7% bodyfat. I worked through the formulas on the link and this suggests I need to lift about the following at 80kg and obviously work on my diet to achieve that bodyfat percent:

Deadlfit 192kg
Squat 166kg
Bench 125kg

That all sounds about right. For those who couldn't be bothered with a pen and paper but who are still interested in calculating their target lifts then I've attached a spreadsheet with the required cells highlighted in yellow.

Interesting little exercise to pass the time of day.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[TrentZor]

Im also after 80kgs 7% BF atm..

but looking at the lifts im sooo far behind its not funny.

Does that factor in different body compositions as well?

 

[MikeW]

Does that factor in different body compositions as well?

Ceffo,

He has a couple of other advice links there worth reading too. His philosophy seems pretty much aligned with the prevailing ones here at AusBB. i.e. Lift big to get big, and focus on core compounds of deads/squats/bench etc

Here's the other two worth reading:

The size/strength connection

Quantifying your desired look

Here's a quote from the first linked article above which goes some way to answer your question on body composition:

Given the relationship between muscle size and strength, a bodybuilders training objectives should seem fairly obvious: train for strength.

There are several sources of confusion over the significance of the size/strength correlation as it applies to bodybuilding:
1. Some muscularly small people are very strong
2. Some muscularly big people are very weak
3. Significant strength gains don’t always seem to lead to significant size gains
4. Significant size gains don’t always come with significant strength gains
5. Gains in muscle size often don’t correlate to gains in strength-related sporting performance

These anecdotal discrepancies are not isolated or infrequent. In every gym and in most high profile sports there are examples of little, strong guys (or girls) and big, weak guys (or girls). Hence, it is easy to see why bodybuilders might abandon strength training for other avenues of growth. Unfortunately, the discrepancies are easily explained and the relevance of strength training for bodybuilding is still absolute.

I liked this detail using Ange Galati as an example of a freak of strength too:

Australian Powerlifter Ange Galati is a good example of a strength ‘freak’. Ange bench presses 235kg at 80kg bodyweight (admittedly with some help from a specially designed Bench Shirt). As such Ange is a world record holder. But several factors combine to make Ange a freak among freaks. Ange is shorter than average (well under 5’ 9”). He also carries much less bodyfat (about 5% or less) and therefore proportionately more muscle for his weight than average.

But freaks like Ange only prove the rule. It is because most of us are average that Anges’ freakiness stands out. We don’t expect people of Anges’ size to lift as much because the average 80kg man cannot lift as much.

Similarly, Anges’ World Record stands because of his strength-to-weight ratio (or strength-to-size ratio). 235kg is not the heaviest weight ever bench pressed; it is the heaviest weight ever benched by a man as small as 80kg (under Federation conditions). A 150kg trainer benching 235kg is not particularly unusual.

The greater majority (90%) of us lift within a few kilos of the average for our height and lean mass. But even freaks like Ange usually gain close to 10kg of muscle (+/- 2kg or so) with every 30, 40 and 45kg on their bench, squat and deadlift respectively.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[Gauche]

Glad you decided to post a new avatar ceffo

On another note that is a good program to set goals with anyway.

 

[BigJim]

I put in there that i want to be 99.5kg @ 10% bodyfat and the lifts i need are:

Dead 177
Squat 153
Bench 115

Are these for reps or singles, cause i can single the dead and bench already, and maybe the squat.

The really good bit is it says that i need to lose 8kg of fat, and put on 8kg of muscle.

 

[MikeW]

BigJim,

They're singles.

That sounds like you might have entered something wrong. The formula takes your current lifts as the base and adds weight to the bar based on how much muscle mass you need to put on. So, if you're adding 8kg of muscle, then you'll need to lift your deads by 4.5 times that for example, or add 36kg to your dead 1RM.

Make sure you've entered your own current lifts in the bit at the bottom. Sounds like you're lifting around 40kg more than me...

Cheers,
Mike

 

[BigJim]

Haha didnt see the bit where you put your own in.

Dead - 217
Squat - 173
Bench - 140

I have my new goals!

Thanks Mike!

 

[brendon]

i put in weiht and i think im about 20% bf goal weigh of 90kg at 10%bf.
lifts needed are 250kg DL 208kg SQ and 135kg Bench so not to far off for weight lifted but the fat mass loss is hard bit.

 

[MikeW]

i put in weiht and i think im about 20% bf goal weigh of 90kg at 10%bf.
lifts needed are 250kg DL 208kg SQ and 135kg Bench so not to far off for weight lifted but the fat mass loss is hard bit.

Mate, that sounds like a good outcome! i.e. Underneath the fat mass you've already got the muscle mass for the physique you aspire too. Just need to do some calorie controlled lifting so you can shed that outer layer and expose the lean machine underneath.

I've got to do both, bulk up and shed some fat mass. I only want two extra kilos of total weight, but have to shed 10kg of fat and replace it with that much muscle mass plus 2kg more for a total of 12kg muscle gain. Got to STFW...

Cheers,
Mike

 

[PTC]

I'm struggling here, so talk me through.

Say your 80kg, and you can

Deadlfit 192kg
Squat 166kg
Bench 125kg

Does that mean you'll be 7% body fat?

Kelly at 79kg

Deadlift 255kg
Bench 160kg
Squat 172.5kg

Kelly is lean, but I'd say he's 15%

Sorry if I've misunderstood, but I'm hopeless with predictions/guessing games

 

[MikeW]

Markos,

And I'd say Kelly is not your average 80kg lifter either. They're some awesome numbers!

But its pretty simple. Its all about his goals relative to his current weight and bodyfat percent.

So, if he wanted to gain 5kg of lean mass and maintain the same amount of bodyfat, then if you plug that in it would suggest he needs to lift the following weights:

Deads: 275kg (up 20kg)
Squats: 191kg (up 18kg)
Bench: 174kg (up 14kg)

In effect, it argues for each 1kg of lean muscle you add to your body you can add 4.5kg to your deadlift, 4kg to your squat and 3kg to your bench. But not all lifters are created equal, that's just the norm for "most" lifters.

On the flipside, you could look at it as suggesting that if he got his lifts to those new targets then you'd expect him to have put on 5kg of lean mass and now weigh 84kg instead of 79kg.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[PTC]

I think we'd rather just lift.

Whats confusing is that YOU could be 7% with Kellys lifts, but not him.

Bodyfat % have to do with diet, this is more theorism gone mad, like the 1RM predictor.

I'm pretty sure bodybuilders dont calculate the weight they deadlift to predict their bodyfat %.

Strength has A LOT to do with tendon strength. Tendons strengthen much slower than muscles. Its why you see OLD powerlifters that are REALLY strong.

Kelly in fact could increase his lean mass and get weaker, by changing his training to more hypertrohy friendly sets/reps while adjusting his diet for fat loss.

More lifting, less calculating. This "program" is an absolute waste of time.

Sorry if I sound negative, but this is absolute crap.

My opinion, dont hate.

 

[MikeW]

Whats confusing is that YOU could be 7% with Kellys lifts, but not him.

Yeah, that's cause he's a sh!tload stronger than I am. For me to get to those lifts I'd have to weigh a lot more than 80kg.

He's deadlifting 255kg today at 80kg and this predicts I'd need to get to only 200kg deads to be 80kg at 7% bodyfat. He's a sh!tload stronger than I am!!

But its all just bell curve stuff as a baseline. And it uses your individual current lifts as the starting point so is tailored in that way to the individual but the rest is all generic "all other things being equal" stuff.

I agree its all a bit generic and there's always stuff that breaks the rules. In fact the guy who wrote it acknowledges all of that too.

Not hating, accept all your points.

On that note, I'm off to lift. PPP week 6 130kg squat programme today. Been itching to lift all day.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[PTC]

All I mean is there is NO correlation between strength and body fat percentages sorry, they are independant of each other. Both are achieved by different means.

Its like me telling you that sinking 20' putts will make you kick straighter.

 

[dave]

I am with Markos on this, I think the use of your lift numbers does not correlate with your body fat %, my body fat correlates with how I eat and that is all. In fact I could put on weight and become a lot stronger but I would also get much fatter and reach the numbers the program proposes.

 

[MikeW]

Dave,

That's cool, but I disagree.

I reckon if I was 80kg and 7% bodyfat then I'd be able to lift a lot more than if I was 80kg and 20% bodyfat for the simple reason that I would have 10kg more muscle in play. This is all about individual recomposition so comparing across individuals makes no sense as we all have different bone structures, heights, experience etc.

Its all about personal recomposition. If you reckon you could lift the same amount regardless how much muscle you have then that's up to you.

So, to Markos' point, I agree. There is no correlation between strength and bodyfat percentages. But there is a correlation between strength and muscle mass which is what this formula is all about. If you substitute 10kg of fat for 10kg of muscle then I reckon there's a fair chance you'll be lifting more.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[dave]

I don't think I explained it well for you. It is not that you are stronger at the same weight with a lower body fat it is that setting a goal for your lifts is not going to get you to a desired body fat level. Muscle mass correlates with strength but strength does not correlate with lower body fat that was my point.

Trying to quantify what your lifts should be at a given body mass and body fat % is useless as there are interplaying neural and structural factors that affect everyone.

 

[MikeW]

I don't think I explained it well for you. It is not that you are stronger at the same weight with a lower body fat it is that setting a goal for your lifts is not going to get you to a desired body fat level. Muscle mass correlates with strength but strength does not correlate with lower body fat.

Dave,

That I agree with 100%!

Diet will get you to a bodyfat level, lifts build muscle.

This little calculation is all about figuring out what that muscular lean frame should be moving at your target total weight and bodyfat%. You won't get that target total weight and bodyfat% unless you focus on both your lifts AND your diet.

The mob who write this stuff do the whole diet planning and workout planning too. That's how they make their money. They plan the diet right down to how many grams of each ingredient in each meal. Its a complete body makeover programme with a shared focus on lifts and diet.

Cheers,
Mike