Strength vs Bodyweight

[Morgan]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately and was wondering what you guys think

I don't want this to sound like a stupid question but which do you think is harder?

A 5ft5" 70kg guy doing 10 chin ups
vs
A 6ft5" 110kg guy doing 10 chin ups

I think taller guys who are naturally heavier (because of height) have a tough time trying to keep up with BW lifts!

Your thoughts!

 

[Josh_GTiR]

Of course they have a harder time with bodyweight lifts, as a whole they lift more weight though.

Hasn't this been the hot topic around here for the last week? LOL

 

[BoyFromAus]

It's more likely that the smaller guy finds it easier

1). assuming both have same amount of fat, the small guy of the same weight has less bone mass and therefore more muscle mass.

2). Torque = Force X arc length... Taller guys have longer arms therefore, they're doing a pull up/ chin up of a longer arc distance than shorter guys. So more Torque required.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

1). assuming both have same amount of fat, the small guy of the same weight has less bone mass and therefore more muscle mass.

No. Bone density and thickness rises in proportion to load put on it. A 110kg guy is putting a greater load on his bones just walking around than would a 70kg guy. Bone density and thickness also rise in response to resistance training. It's possible to have a 70kg guy with denser, thicker and overall greater mass of bone tissue than a 110kg guy.

The muscle mass will be in proportion to the bone mass; all the things that build up or knock down muscle also build up or knock down bones, and vice versa.

Torque = Force X arc length... Taller guys have longer arms therefore, they're doing a pull up/ chin up of a longer arc distance than shorter guys. So more Torque required.

Or more precisely, greater force to achieve the same torque - that is, greater force must be exerted to get the weight (or person) from A to B. That's why weightlifting favours people with relatively shorter arms and legs.

Still, the larger guy will tend to have more muscle mass, and will thus be able to produce more force than the smaller guy.

Overall, strength does not rise linearly with size. The 110kg guy can't necessarily lift 110/70 = 157% of the smaller guy's lifts. But he should be embarrassed if he can only lift 25% more, or the same.

Morgan is just trying to make excuses for himself It'd be like me trying to justify why I'm not as strong as Shorty up in Queensland, doing his 200+kg deadlifts at under 70kg. I'm not as strong because I haven't trained as hard and as long as him, not because I'm taller.

 

[NPR]

Bodyweight stuff is easier for the smaller guys.

Big weights are easier for the big guys.

Markos' strong man comps are a good example.

1.Squat.................................1.5 times bodyweight to a 29cm box, most reps in 60sec
2.Clean & press......................bodyweight, most reps in 60sec
3.Around the World.................6 minute time limit
4.Chins..................................15% of bodyweight, clean start, frog kick from midway allowed
5.272m Run............................fastest time over 272m
6.Keg press............................press the most kegs in order in the fastest time
7.Ukrainian deadlifts...............64kg KB on a 32cm blocks, most reps in 60sec
8.Bench press........................bodyweight, most reps in 60sec
9.Car push.............................push utility for 40m, fastest time
10.Medley..............................move 8 x 20kg plates a distance of 40m each, one at a time, sprint back to start line, 640m total, fastest time
11.Farmers walk.....................carry implements weighing 50kg furthest distance
12.Keg load............................carry all 7 kegs a total of 10m and load on back of utility

Nina - 60kg
Ghosty - 63.3kg
Nick - 69.8kg
Max - 69.8kg
Daniel - 75.7kg
Simon - 81.8kg
Alen - 82.3kg
Mick - 84kg
Ryan - 86kg
Trish - 87.4kg
Chris - 100.8kg
Nick - 102.3kg
Dave - 104.9kg
Matt - 108kg

SQUAT.....60sec time limit

Max 103.5kg x 16 reps
Ghosty 95kg x 16 reps
Chris 151kg x 12 reps
Alen 123.5kg x 8 reps
Simon 122.5kg x 7 reps
Dan 113.5kg x 6 reps
Mick 126kg x 4 reps
Nick 153.5kg x 3 reps
Nina 90kg x 2 reps
Ryan 127.5kg x 2 reps
Trish 131kg x 1 reps
Nick 0
Matt 0
Dave 0

CLEAN & PRESS

Max 70kg x 7
Ghosty 63.5kg x 6
Simon 82.5kg x 5
Mick 83.5kg x 4
Alen 82.5kg x 4
Ryan 86kg x 3
Nick 102.5kg x 2
Trish 87.5kg x 2
Dan 76kg x 2
Matt 0
Dave 0
Nina 0
Chris 0 (inj)
Nicky 0

CHINS

Alen 12.5kg x 11
Simon 12.5kg x 11
Max 10.5kg x 10
Mick 12.5kg x 10
Trish 13.5kg x 10
Nicky 10.5kg x 9
Ryan 12.5kg x 9
Nick 15.5kg x 8
Ghosty 10kg x 8
Nina 9kg x 7
Dan 11kg x 7
Chris 15kg x 6
Dave 0
Matt 0

272m RUN

Max 41.31
Nick 42.97
Mick 43.87
Simon 44.53
Chris 45.07
Trish 46.56
Nicky 46.68
Ghosty 46.75
Alen 48.25
Ryan 48.68
Dan 49.19
Matt 52.15
Dave 54.19
Nina 58.91

KEG PRESS...23kg - 30kg -36kg -42kg - 46kg - 50kg - 56kg

Nick 7 kegs in 40sec
Simon 7 kegs in 48sec
Chris 7 kegs in 51sec
Matt 6 kegs in 31sec
Alen 6 kegs in 35sec
Ryan 6 kegs in 37sec
Max 6 kegs in 40sec
Trish 6 kegs in 41sec
Dave 6 kegs in 60sec
Nicky 5 kegs in 35sec
Mick 5 kegs in 45sec
Ghosty 4 kegs in 21sec
Dan 3 kegs in 16sec
Nina 2 kegs in 29sec

UKRAINIAN DEADLIFTS

Nick 46
Chris 46
Trish 45
Alen 44
Mick 41
Matt 40
Simon 36
Dave 35
Max 34
Ryan 34
Nicky 31
Ghosty 29
Nina 22
Dan 19

BENCH PRESS

Simon 82.5 x 16
Ghosty 63.5 x 16
Ryan 86 x 15
Alen 82.5 x 15
Nina 60 x 11
Dan 76 x 11
Nick 102.5 x 10
Trish 87.5 x 10
Max 70 x 7
Nicky 70 x 5
Chris 101 x 5
Mick 83.5 x 4
Dave 0
Matt 0

CAR PUSH...Pulsar - 40m

Nick 16.72sec
Simon 17.82sec
Matt 17.85sec
Ryan 18.21sec
Chris 18.31sec
Trish 18.38sec
Dave 18.94sec
Nicky 19.34sec
Mick 19.91sec
Alen 21.50sec
Dan 21.68sec
Max 22.06sec
Ghosty 22.91sec
Nina 27.62sec

MEDLEY

Nick 3m00s
Alen 3.07
Simon 3.10
Chris 3.15
Trish 3.20
Matt 3.25
Ryan 3.27
Max 3.36
Mick 3.44
Dave 4.08
Nina 4.17
Dan 4.31
Ghosty 4.32
Nicky 0

FARMERS WALK...57kg each hand

Nick 127.7m
Trish 120m
Chris 100m
Simon 100m
Ryan 66.4kg
Matt 66.4kg
Mick 61.6kg
Dan 41.5m
Alen 40m
Max 36.5m
Nina 20m
Ghosty 20m
Dave 9.2m
Nicky 0

Now look at the bodyweight events and see how the light guys dominated. Then when heavy weights are used the big guys come in to their own.

If you want to compare your lifts with someone much heavier or lighter you must use wilks, end of story.

 

[Morgan]

Morgan is just trying to make excuses for himself It'd be like me trying to justify why I'm not as strong as Shorty up in Queensland, doing his 200+kg deadlifts at under 70kg. I'm not as strong because I haven't trained as hard and as long as him, not because I'm taller.

I didn't mean it as to why/why not I'm not lifting what I should, just an interesting topic, I think taller guys have it slightly tougher!

I just think a 70kg guy benching 70kg is easier than a 100kg guy benching 100kg, all things equal of course.

 

[PTC]

Generally, the stronger guy wins, regardless of bodyweight. I've never heard Kelly whinge about the 100kg + guys. Kelly weighs 85kg on a good day.

Benches 152.5kg
Push presses 115kg
Deadlifts 230kg
Powercleans 105kg
Squats 165kg

If you cant do that at ANY bodyweight, stop whinging that your weak because your tall or heavy, this is not directed at anyone in particular, just beat the flyweights lifts head to head.

Or perhaps you guys may be interested in taking on Ray at 67kg lol

165kg squat
205kg deadlift
120kg bench

We have a saying at PTC....Strong is Strong.

Wilks takes care of the bodyweight issue in competition.

I posted some Wilks scores up earlier, with a 60kg 44yo woman beating all lifts from members on here.

Strong is Strong

Tonight, Max was doing 170kg x 5 shrugs @ 68kg, no wraps, deadlifted the bar off the ground first and held it for 5 reps. Thats 2.5 times bodyweight, ignore the deadlift part, how strong is the grip on a 17yo that has never used any sort of grip aid in the gym from day one.

Strong is Strong

When it comes to bodyweight stuff, of course the lighter guy has an advantage, so what. I still managed 20 perfect wide grip chins at 90kg. I still did well over 60 dips.

 

[Josh_GTiR]

I like that, strong is strong. haha

What the hell has Kelly been eating?? Strong bastard.

 

[turbodragon]

People are like cars: You need good Power-to-Weight ratio!!!

 

[PTC]

Morgan is correct in saying that a 100kg bench press by a 100kg guy is a more impressive lift than 70kg bench press from a 70kg guy.

The Wilks score backs him up

100kg @ 100kg = 60.86
70kg @ 70kg = 52.45

For a 70kg guy to match the Wilks of a 100kg guy, he would need to bench 81kg. So Morgan is correct.

But that doesnt change the argument that strong is strong. Nina has a Wilks of 86.40 in the bench press. Morgan would need to bench 150kg to match that score at his current bodyweight.

The calculator doesnt lie. He would need to bench 183kg to match my score. Strong is strong.

Thats why we use Wilks to determine the winner at my comps. Nobody has ever scored 500 Wilks points at one of my 5 lift comps. There will be some that go close if they bring their STRONG with them in a couple of weeks.

The best is 497 points by a 79kg lifter and 495 points by a 100kg lifter.

Basing an AUSBB record board on Wilks will still have the strongest on top, regardless of bodyweight.