Smiths Machine Squats

[-LJ-]

I wanted to say I saw some bad Smiths Machine Squats at the gym today. Good on them for having a go and doing squats as most don't, but they were squatting and almost leaning backwards when doing the squat!

When they went down, it almost looked as if they were sitting on a chair with a verticle back, so their feet were around 20cms infront of the weight!

I don't think its my place though to give advice as I am a begineer myself and they might be offended.

The other thing I saw was another group the other day doing deadlifts and having the worst rounded backs, one guy didn't even bend at the knees!

 

[eaglebay]

I saw a pt at my gym doing a similar style squat, feet forward, leaning back onto the bar going half way down with a straight back. Another guy yesterday loaded about 90kg on the smith and did 1/4 squats, funny what goes through your mind sometimes!

There is such thing as straight leg deadlifts though

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Unless they're going to injure themselves at that instant, mind your own business

The only exception is if they're lifting half or less what you are. As you become more experienced you'll start to see who are complete newbies and would welcome advice.

 

[-LJ-]

Unless they're going to injure themselves at that instant, mind your own business

I agree, it's none of my business. I go to the gym for myself and not to give advice/watch others. You can't help looking sometimes though, a month ago a guy with string singlet was doing headstands on one of the benches lol.

 

[The Hulk]

The way you describe it, doesn't seem like much of a different exercise to a hack squat?

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Don't worry, I fully support pointing and laughing.

But really, the best way to mock them is to lift fcking heavy.

 

[Zarkov]

The way you describe it, doesn't seem like much of a different exercise to a hack squat?

Sounds just like a hack squat.I`m not sure what the others are having a laugh at.

 

[-LJ-]

Sounds just like a hack squat.I`m not sure what the others are having a laugh at.

It didn't look anything like in the video.

[youtube]CCDFdNqg0I4[/youtube]

Picture a normal squat but instead of the weight being inline with the heels of your feet, the weight is around 30cms or so behind. They were using the rails of the smith machine to lean back on and support them. If they were not using the smiths machine they would have toppled over backwards the weight was so out of line with their legs.

 

[The Hulk]

Still the same as a hack squat, a machine hack squat that is:

 

[Kyle Aaron]

What they were doing would be something like this.
[YOUTUBE]sU36k3-p5UI[/YOUTUBE]

Basically, if you have your legs forward like that, then your knees flex but your hips don't (unless you go below parallel, then there's some hip flexion and the glutes come in). So you work your quads a lot. And not much else.

In the following video, you get to see the sort of trainer who recommends a Smith machine squat (I recommend you turn the sound off otherwise you might have to punch the screen), and the sort of massive legs and phenomenal strength you can get from doing it.

[youtube]DfloUK26rGQ[/youtube]

Here's a hint, honey: if you can chew gum while you're lifting, you're not working hard enough.

 

[-LJ-]

What they were doing would be something like this.
[youtube]sU36k3-p5UI[/youtube]

Basically, if you have your legs forward like that, then your knees flex but your hips don't (unless you go below parallel, then there's some hip flexion and the glutes come in). So you work your quads a lot. And not much else.

In the following video, you get to see the sort of trainer who recommends a Smith machine squat (I recommend you turn the sound off otherwise you might have to punch the screen), and the sort of massive legs and phenomenal strength you can get from doing it.

[youtube]DfloUK26rGQ[/youtube]

Here's a hint, honey: if you can chew gum while you're lifting, you're not working hard enough.

No those are what I thought proper smiths squats were meant to be like. The one I saw had the feet much further forward. I guess it is similar to the machine hack squat however the rails run verticle not on an angle on the machine.

 

[Fadi]

My experience with a smith machine lasted half a workout in the mid 80s when the smith machine made it into the gym. As far as lifting light weights, it’s great. Once you pile on the weights…forget it! It nearly decommissioned my bodybuilding career early on in the game. It’s not a free moving machine that allows a free and unrestricted movement like the proper bar squat. Its single plane of motion makes it extremely difficult for a squat specialist to go anywhere near a proper/substantial weight before the machine begins to lock up.

In the squat, you are free to move in the plane your body feels most comfortable at. A slight mistake in a barbell squat can very easily and instantaneously be corrected during the movement. Not so in the smith machine which locks the lifter into its plane of motion. That can spell disaster as it nearly did for me. Because where the stabiliser muscles are always coming in and out of “play” whilst lifting; they tend to be put to sleep during a smith machine movement.

I’m not a proponent of anything that locks you and constrains your movement through space. The same goes for MP on a smith machine. Many lifters love it because it takes everything out of the equation and lets you concentrate on pushing up the weight only. I say leave the machines until your stabilisers and nervous system has had a real taste of what it is to lift a weight. It’s all about educating your nervous system to fire properly on demand.

I may be biased and wrong of course. Would be interested to hear others' point of view or experiences.


On the note of whether I’d help or not in a gym. I’d always want to help in the nicest way possible. But I think generally speaking, if you look the part or have 4 plates on each end of a squat bar when squatting; patrons usually listen. Which is a shame really, because there’ll be numerous occasions when the least intimidating member at the gym, can come up with some amazing ideas, (by looking outside the square). I’d listen to anybody and everybody’s advice irrespective of how they look or how much they can lift. Everyone has something to offer; everyone!


Fadi.

 

[howzit]

This personal trainer at my old gym (very good build, obviously knew what he was doing before he became one), told my dad about those kind of smith squats (if that's what I'm thinking of). He recommended them because they don't put as much stress on the lower back...

 

[Morgan]

I have tried both and I agree that with your feet slightly more forward it does take the stress off your lower back.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

But, um, if we don't stress it, then it stays weak...

My back is so much better since I started squatting and deadlifting. Still weak, but no pain. Except when I get impatient and lift too much, but that is not the fault of the exercises, that is my fault for being a dckhead

 

[The Hulk]

Maybe the guy in the original post was just doing hack style squats on the smith as an accessory exercise?
He possibly also does barbell squats and deadlifts with perfect form.

It's not really good to judge people if you don't know their situation and goals.

 

[Morgan]

Sorry I said it wrong, it's not a nice stress lime from a proper squat or a good deadlift, it's more like what Fadi was talking about, I made it worse by doing +40kg situps the day before, my lower back was fatigued before I even started.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Goes to show, just doing squats and deadlifts is enough for your "core".

 

[-LJ-]

It's not really good to judge people if you don't know their situation and goals.

Another reason why I didn't say anything and just kept to myself. However I think a topic like this is fine to bring up on a forum do you think?

Another reason why I posted here is to get peoples thoughts and now find out it is not bad form, but an exercise to not stress the back. But it did look weird to me.

 

[howzit]

But, um, if we don't stress it, then it stays weak...

My back is so much better since I started squatting and deadlifting. Still weak, but no pain. Except when I get impatient and lift too much, but that is not the fault of the exercises, that is my fault for being a dckhead

That's pretty arrogant of you "Mr. PT". You don't know what one could be suffering.. At the time my dad had bad lower back problems due to some compression in his spine...

Now however, he squated 140kg for 5 after about 3 sessions back in to it (age 50).