Questions about Cutting?

[Puggy]

Hey all, I've almost finished my first bulk, and I'm really impressed with the results. My arms have grown over an inch. And other parts are visibly different.
I'll be posting some pictures soon. I'm going to be starting a cut soon, hoping to hit 8-10% body fat by the end.

My aim is to cut over 10 weeks, I think this is achievable. This will be my first cut, so I'm new to the idea. And obviously, I'd like to loose as little muscle as possible. My training routine will still be varying from week to week to keep the muscles going, but sticking to good training principles. Parts of my diet I will be changing will be adding lean meats (chicken), changing my carbs from HI GI to LOW GI (pasta to sweet potato, brown rice, quinoa, oats), eating a lot cleaner and doing a few HIIT cardio sessions.

A few specific questions I have:

I'm currently at 3500 calories per day. When I start my cut, should I cut to 2500 calories straight away or progress slower, 3500, 3250, 3000, 2750, 2500 weekly or, even quicker than that or straight away? I'm not sure how much this would affect anything?

Do you think that 10 weeks is a viable period to cut to 8-10% body fat from 15-17%?

Anything I haven't thought of or should think of?

Last thought:

Lean bulk once cut? To maintain over summer months.
Then March or similar start a stronger bulk?

Thanks
Daniel

 

[Puggy]

Anyone?

 

[White_Lie]

I think you're over thinking things. If you're bulking on 3500, dropping to 3250 isn't going to do anything to shed weight.

What are you maintenance cals? Work that out and then drop 300-500 below that. Give it some time and assess the situation and see if you need to drop more or not.

 

[Repacked]

Hey all, I've almost finished my first bulk, and I'm really impressed with the results. My arms have grown over an inch. And other parts are visibly different.
I'll be posting some pictures soon. I'm going to be starting a cut soon, hoping to hit 8-10% body fat by the end.

My aim is to cut over 10 weeks, I think this is achievable. This will be my first cut, so I'm new to the idea. And obviously, I'd like to loose as little muscle as possible. My training routine will still be varying from week to week to keep the muscles going, but sticking to good training principles. Parts of my diet I will be changing will be adding lean meats (chicken), changing my carbs from HI GI to LOW GI (pasta to sweet potato, brown rice, quinoa, oats), eating a lot cleaner and doing a few HIIT cardio sessions.

A few specific questions I have:

I'm currently at 3500 calories per day. When I start my cut, should I cut to 2500 calories straight away or progress slower, 3500, 3250, 3000, 2750, 2500 weekly or, even quicker than that or straight away? I'm not sure how much this would affect anything?

IMO dropping approx 30% of you cal off the top is unnecessary. You could drop by that much for a few days to get the ball rolling however, then raise cals to below maintenance. I'm assuming you know what your maintenance cals are - I would drop in increments of 250 cals. First week, drop to maintenance -250 and add some cardio. Progress from there. The more fat loss you can get from a given caloric intake before having to decrease further the better. Theoretically if you know what your maintenance is and how many kgs of fat you need to lose to get to your goal (remember 9000 cal per kg of fat) you can work out how much you need to drop each week and what cals will get you there.

Do you think that 10 weeks is a viable period to cut to 8-10% body fat from 15-17%?

I don't know how much you weigh currently Daniel, but assuming you weigh no more than 100kg and only want to drop 5-7 kgs to get you to the 10% (ish) mark, I think that is quite achievable over a ten week period.

Anything I haven't thought of or should think of?

The more gradual your fat loss the more LBM you will likely retain, the less 'hard' you diet will have to be and the easier it will be if you can still eat foods you like. Carbohydrates are a 'protein sparing' source of energy so unless you are going down the keto path keep some carbs in your diet and protein at a reasonable level. Do some research, there is plenty of good info out there. If you're not dieting for a comp you can afford to be flexible in your plans too so make sure you still enjoy a couple of drinks with your mates. An extra week of dieting makes no difference.

Last thought:

Lean bulk once cut? To maintain over summer months.
Then March or similar start a stronger bulk?

Enjoy it for a little while then put on your winter coat bro!

Thanks
Daniel

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[Puggy]

I think you're over thinking things. If you're bulking on 3500, dropping to 3250 isn't going to do anything to shed weight.

What are you maintenance cals? Work that out and then drop 300-500 below that. Give it some time and assess the situation and see if you need to drop more or not.

Maintenance is 3000. I've only been bulking on 500 cal surplus. I'm going to get to 2500 which would be 500 cal deficit.
Basically, as mentioned the main reason, to drop slower was to reduce muscle loss.

Thanks for your reply

 

[Puggy]

@Repacked

Maintenance is 3000. I've been bulking on 3500. I was thinking a slow decrease would be the best way to insure that I didn't plateau quickly. And decrease chance of muscle loss. I'll start my cut in one-two weeks.

I think I'll have to loose 5-7kg. Seeing as I started at 14% body fat and 83kg. And I'm now 16% body fat and 90kg.
Either way if I cut back down to 83kg and at 8-10% body fat, I'll be a hell of a lot leaner but still the same weight. But more mass.

9000 x 7 = 63000 cal deficit over 10 weeks.
63000 / 10 = 6300 per week.
6300 / 7 = 900 per day.

So 500 caloric defict. Plus 400 calories from weight training & cardio?
Seems reasonably easy for me. It's hard for me to calculate my weight loss from training.

I used a calculator online. My longish weight sessions burn close to 700 calories which I do 3x per week.
And my 1x vigorous shorter workout very much the same.

Works out like 2500 calories per week burned from weight training.
Plus 500 deficit every day = 2500 + 3500 = 6000.
So I wouldn't have to do too much cardio to start burning weight.

I'm hoping that I loose virtually no muscle. Reason for advanced planning towards cut.

I struggle with fatigue quite a lot of the time even with sleep. And I find that I function really well with carbs, so loosing too many would be back for me.
There are plenty of diets.

@ 3500 calories my macro's are basically 250 P, 90 F, rest carbs 350-500.
@ 2500 calories my macro's will be 220 P, 80 F, rest carbs 210-240.

I'm using the IIFYM calculator. I'll make sure I have a cheat meal each week to keep me going well.
I don't drink, probably which is one of the reasons I got overweight in the first place!

Thanks for all the advice man. Appreciated, oh thanks for the disclaimer too

 

[Repacked]

@Repacked

Maintenance is 3000. I've been bulking on 3500. I was thinking a slow decrease would be the best way to insure that I didn't plateau quickly. And decrease chance of muscle loss. I'll start my cut in one-two weeks.

I think I'll have to loose 5-7kg. Seeing as I started at 14% body fat and 83kg. And I'm now 16% body fat and 90kg.
Either way if I cut back down to 83kg and at 8-10% body fat, I'll be a hell of a lot leaner but still the same weight. But more mass.

By my calcumalations 90 kg @ 16% = 14.4 kg of BF. If you drop 7 kg of purely fat, you will be 83 kg BW @8.9% BF with 7.4 kg of BF = 75.6 kg of LBM (inc skeletal mass). Originally you were 83 kg @ 14% BF = 11.6 kg of BF = 71.4 LBM (inc skeletal mass), so a good gain overall (assuming my maths is correct...boffins??)

9000 x 7 = 63000 cal deficit over 10 weeks.
63000 / 10 = 6300 per week.
6300 / 7 = 900 per day.

So 500 caloric defict. Plus 400 calories from weight training & cardio?
Seems reasonably easy for me. It's hard for me to calculate my weight loss from training.

The sums look solid to me. It provides you with a starting point, you'll have to adjust as required. Assess your progress and weigh in at the end of each week.

I used a calculator online. My longish weight sessions burn close to 700 calories which I do 3x per week.
And my 1x vigorous shorter workout very much the same.

Works out like 2500 calories per week burned from weight training.
Plus 500 deficit every day = 2500 + 3500 = 6000.
So I wouldn't have to do too much cardio to start burning weight.

Unfortunately, all things being constant, if you drop cals 500 below maintenance and need to burn 900 per day you will have to burn the extra 400 through ​cardio additional to your current load. Remember your fat loss won't be at a constant rate either. Given that dropping 7 kg will get you below 9% BF which is quite lean, you may want to drop a bit less over the ten weeks.

I'm hoping that I loose virtually no muscle. Reason for advanced planning towards cut.

I struggle with fatigue quite a lot of the time even with sleep. And I find that I function really well with carbs, so loosing too many would be back for me.

You know your body best so go by how you feel.

There are plenty of diets.

Sorry, when I said research I meant more about principles of dieting rather than generic 'one size fits all' diets.

@ 3500 calories my macro's are basically 250 P, 90 F, rest carbs 350-500.
@ 2500 calories my macro's will be 220 P, 80 F, rest carbs 210-240.

This gives you some wiggle room across all 3 macros if you plateau. Remember to keep your water up.

I'm using the IIFYM calculator. I'll make sure I have a cheat meal each week to keep me going well.
I don't drink, probably which is one of the reasons I got overweight in the first place!

Re-feeding can be good metabolically and mentally! How did not drinking get you overweight?

Thanks for all the advice man. Appreciated, oh thanks for the disclaimer too

Good luck mate!

 

[Puggy]

So by your calculations I have made a nice gain of muscle, which sounds about right. And looks about right after looking at myself in the mirror.
It's definitely noticeable. Noob gains I think. Hopefully the next bulk is just as easy.

Additional daily cardio of 400 calories is just going to be too much for me, I'll set a limit, I can't totally kill myself.
I've got exams coming up this term, so have to keep my energy up.

This is the sort of cardio I could be doing. I think 7kg may be too much also.
I think I'll put the bar at 5kg, then see how lean I become. And how I look.
If I don't, it's not amazingly hard to drop 2kg more in a few weeks if need be.

3x days per week of 20 mins HIIT on running @ 14.5kph, and walking @ 6.5kph - one minute on, one minute off - calories burned 830
230 calories unaccounted - burned through occupation/walking

Recalculating at 5kg over 10 weeks. 500g loss per week.
9000 calores x 5 kg of fat
= 45000 / 10 weeks of dieting/cardio
= 4500 calories / 7 days
= 650 (rounded)
= 650 - 500 calorie deficet
= 150 cardio per day x 7
= 1050 calories burned by cardio per week

Drinking too many weekends, helped me get overweight
Refeeding on a Sunday will be nice.

 

[Repacked]

So by your calculations I have made a nice gain of muscle, which sounds about right. And looks about right after looking at myself in the mirror.
It's definitely noticeable. Noob gains I think. Hopefully the next bulk is just as easy.

If calcs are correct 4.2 kg of muscle gained (but we'll round it up to 10 lbs 'cos it sounds better).

Additional daily cardio of 400 calories is just going to be too much for me, I'll set a limit, I can't totally kill myself.
I've got exams coming up this term, so have to keep my energy up.

That might only be a 5k jog (25 mins+/-). Like I said go by how you feel, exams should take priority, you have plenty of time to get lean. You night be surprised how your body reacts (I don't know what your metabolism's like etc). The numbers give you a good base to work from but they assume all factors are constant and they never are. A busy day could see you burn 400 cal more than a sedentary day easily, so give it a crack and adjust as necessary.

This is the sort of cardio I could be doing. I think 7kg may be too much also.
I think I'll put the bar at 5kg, then see how lean I become. And how I look.
If I don't, it's not amazingly hard to drop 2kg more in a few weeks if need be.

3x days per week of 20 mins HIIT on running @ 14.5kph, and walking @ 6.5kph - one minute on, one minute off - calories burned830
230 calories unaccounted - burned through occupation/walking

Do whatever feels good....and works.

Recalculating at 5kg over 10 weeks. 500g loss per week.
9000 calores x 5 kg of fat
= 45000 / 10 weeks of dieting/cardio
= 4500 calories / 7 days
= 650 (rounded)
= 650 - 500 calorie deficet
= 150 cardio per day x 7
= 1050 calories burned by cardio per week

Drinking too many weekends, helped me get overweight
Refeeding on a Sunday will be nice.

I think that adds up. Like I said, the numbers are a good point to work from, you'll have to suck it and see.

Good luck.

 

[jzpowahz]

It is unlikely that you will lose 100% fat. That is quite difficult to do. Depends on training experience, diet and BF% mainly. I don't like putting time restrictions on bulk or cut. Adjust as necessary and continue until satisfied.

 

[Rugby88]

I have cut 2 ways -

- Slowly decreasing my calories over time - i.e 3500, 3200, 3000, 2800 etc etc

- Calories/food remaining the same but increasing training - either weights or cardio sessions and/or time week to week

I personally had better results with the 2nd option - increasing training and/or cardio week to week - and leaving my food intake pretty much the same every single week.

I do though think if this is your 1st cut start with the 1st option as I do believe the 2nd option needs slightly more training experience - drop calories slowly - if your not dropping the weight then drop the cals abit more - towards the end though I would start to ramp up the amount of cardio you are doing.

You will drop abit of muscle but that is impossible to stop.

Big thing though don't over-think things too much - start with X calories and X training and monitor your results week to week - if something isn't working then drop the cals and play around with things abit - the 1st cut is always going to be trial and error.

 

[jzpowahz]

Big thing though don't over-think things too much - start with X calories and X training and monitor your results week to week - if something isn't working then drop the cals and play around with things abit - the 1st cut is always going to be trial and error.

Totally agree.

And relating to that, change one variable at a time. Don't drop 500 cals and add a cardio session per day. You want to cut on as many cals as possible with as little cardio as possible to maintain LBM basically. Increase activity or drop cals when required.

 

[steveP]

I'm doing something similar, a 12 week shredding 'challenge'. In week 10 currently.

Ausbb - Australian BodyBuilding

What I'm doing is pretty extreme though. In hindsight, I should have started at a lower fat fat level.

 

[Repacked]

Cat Stevens - The First Cut Is The Deepest - YouTube

 

[Puggy]

Thanks for the replies guys.
Really appreciated.

Been following your progress @jzpowahz, super impressed. One day for me too!

 

[Puggy]

I'm thinking if I just decrease to only maintence @ 3000.
And just do more cardio I should drop some.
And it gives me enough energy, etc.

I have cut 2 ways -

- Slowly decreasing my calories over time - i.e 3500, 3200, 3000, 2800 etc etc

- Calories/food remaining the same but increasing training - either weights or cardio sessions and/or time week to week

I personally had better results with the 2nd option - increasing training and/or cardio week to week - and leaving my food intake pretty much the same every single week.

I do though think if this is your 1st cut start with the 1st option as I do believe the 2nd option needs slightly more training experience - drop calories slowly - if your not dropping the weight then drop the cals abit more - towards the end though I would start to ramp up the amount of cardio you are doing.

You will drop abit of muscle but that is impossible to stop.

Big thing though don't over-think things too much - start with X calories and X training and monitor your results week to week - if something isn't working then drop the cals and play around with things abit - the 1st cut is always going to be trial and error.