walt
DuffProteinMan
what time are you using the pre workout?
I'm still rockin this BN Pre workout NT and had a killer session this arvo in the gym. I'll be trying there non-caffeinated version next to see if I can find a product that doesn't affect my sleep. This one seems to have me wide awake at 4am, which I'm not happy about. Still loving it in the gym though. I'm only using 2 scoops at the moment, but also only using about once or twice a week, a 3-4 days apart.
what time are you using the pre workout?
About the same here on workout days, sometimes I will have it as late as 6:30 pm when I work later, no problems with sleeping.4:30-5pm, then going to bed around 11pm.
200-250ml iced water with 2-3 ice cubes, 10 gram pre workout, shake viperously and drink, I like the taste of it very refreshing
Although this has already been developed in the US, it would be good to do it here.
1. We need a product that has a carbohydrate to a protein ration of 4:1 or 3:1.
2. It has to be a simple carb with a high glycimic index.
3. It has to have some electrolytes.
4. It has to have some anti-oxidants
5. Its protein content has to be easily digested and assimilated, preferably WPI.
6. It has to taste good when mixed in water.
7. The above macro ratios are based on scientific facts. Please grab a hold of the book called Nutrient Timing by Dr. John Ivy and Dr.Robert Portman for all your info.
8. The above ratios are for pre/during/post. The only difference is in quantity.
Fadi.
The only issue i have with this is the inclusion of anti oxidants.
Vit C in particular has been show to soothe inflamatory cytokines at the site of the muscle trauma.
Ive also seen studies both pre and post on vit c and e which has show decreased insulin sensitivity.
Personally, i dont take any anti oxidants pre or post. (maybe with the exception of COQ10) which has had some cool data published regarding increased type II muscle fibres
Regards
LMR
If I was to recommend anti-oxidants to people I care about, I would recommend they take it pre and post workouts. Why? Because I would not want to see their chances of getting cancer increasing due to their workouts. You've read that correctly. The extra consumption of oxygen (during a workout) is a potential "food' for the free radicals your workout has generated. Yes, CoQ10 plays its magic here, but CoQ10 is as powerful as the weakest link in the chain, for when it comes to anti-oxidants, it is a chain, a team, and not an individual anti-oxidant that is required to tackle the "baddies".Personally, i dont take any anti oxidants pre or post.
Please check the studies you've read re vitamin c and e and see if it's quantity related. Also, you are wasting your coq10 if you're not consuming it with enough fat, since it's a fat soluble compound.
Please look outside the box when mentioning vitamin C and insulin. Why do I say that? Because if you ate (sweets) as nature intended, your sweets would be fruits, and we all know that vitamin C is found in many fruits. So it’s either God has got it wrong; the scientists have got it wrong, or we're simply eating the wrong kind of "sweets"!
Here's an article for you to read on vitamin C: http://members.upnaway.com/~poliowa/How%20Vitamin%20C%20works.html
I've mentioned (on a previous occasion) 5 antioxidants which I would take (apart from others of course like olive leaf extract etc.) which work to regenerate/recycle each other. These are namely:
Vitamin C
Vitamin E
CoQ10
Lipoic acid
N-Acetyl Cysteine
If I was to recommend anti-oxidants to people I care about, I would recommend they take it pre and post workouts. Why? Because I would not want to see their chances of getting cancer increasing due to their workouts. You've read that correctly. The extra consumption of oxygen (during a workout) is a potential "food' for the free radicals your workout has generated. Yes, CoQ10 plays its magic here, but CoQ10 is as powerful as the weakest link in the chain, for when it comes to anti-oxidants, it is a chain, a team, and not an individual anti-oxidant that is required to tackle the "baddies".
http://www.exrx.net/Nutrition/Antioxidants/Introduction.html
Fadi.
No one here is disputing the fact that free radicals are an essential part of the bigger biological picture. Take for instance one of the most currently popular bodybuilding supplements, nitric oxide (NO), which is in fact a free radical, one of the most essential free radicals of all known to man. It’s not a vitamin nor a mineral, not even a polyphenol no; it’s simply a biological gas. And what a gas it is! Although it’s a free radical, its presence or manufacturing is one of the most critically essential of all for maintaining our health. So as you can see, I at least, am in no dispute with anyone when it comes to the vital role free radicals have to play in the larger scheme of things.In general i'm on the fence re antioxidants. I know this isn't a popular viewpoint, (and i'm by no means trying to be argumentative here) but some reaseachers are begining to think that free radicals actually play an important role in many processes.
You're right Bazza. One of those antioxidant is beta-carotene which is an amazing antioxidant... when part of its carrier food, but not when isolated as part of an antioxidant supplement.Some I think even had antioxidants having a negative effect.
Olive leaf extract.
Vitamin C
Vitamin E
CoQ10
Lipoic acid
N-Acetyl Cysteine
I take these individually as I have not seen one product that incorporates all together.What form do you take these in?? And is there a supplement that incorporates most of all of these...apart from the obvious eating all the correct foods (which I think will never happen on a daily basis even with a good diet)
No one here is disputing the fact that free radicals are an essential part of the bigger biological picture. Take for instance one of the most currently popular bodybuilding supplements, nitric oxide (NO), which is in fact a free radical, one of the most essential free radicals of all known to man. It’s not a vitamin nor a mineral, not even a polyphenol no; it’s simply a biological gas. And what a gas it is! Although it’s a free radical, its presence or manufacturing is one of the most critically essential of all for maintaining our health. So as you can see, I at least, am in no dispute with anyone when it comes to the vital role free radicals have to play in the larger scheme of things.
The problem however is this: the environment we find ourselves living in today is causing an overwhelming of free radicals. In other words, the balance is shifting in favour of free radicals and disease causing compounds. Even breathing has become dangerous and in need of some counter measure.
By the way, an antioxidant like vitamin C or E for example can themselves become free radicals when their job of being an antioxidant is done. Hence, I put up the antioxidant “players” that work to recycle an antioxidant after completing its initial task.
Finally, as I've already alluded to in my previous post re the quantity of the pre and post vitamins. The last study you've put up talks of 1000mg of vitamin C. What I was talking about based on the book I've mentioned in my earlier post (which has prompted your initial response to me) was a mere 30-120 mg of vitamin C, and 20-60IU of vitamin E. That's a far cry from 1000mg of vitamin C and 400IU of vitamin E.
So although I was recommending the taking of vitamin C & E pre and post workouts, the quantity of these were not so overwhelming as to negatively affect any insulin response, but enough to exert their anti-oxidant power in time of need.
It's unfortunate that you've chosen to ignore my PS.
Fadi.
Posted up in the intro thread as directed.
Fair enough. I wasn't trying to attack your reccomendation (i was merely trying to offer an apposing viewpoint to stimulate some interesting discussion).
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