My training....

[Gauche]

New to this forum and I thought I mite just type up what I do to gauge your reactions.

Ive been training for like 3 years but only feel ive got anywhere recently. Im 21, 188cm weight 87kg. My bench weight at 6 reps at 82.5 with a max weight of about 90. Ive only just started deadlifting so I cant really give you any real indication of my progress there. Only just started squating recently too because for the longest time I saw legs as a waste of time . My new training is based around Max-OT. Its a heavy gaining program and has shown a massive result to me in the last three months. More then anything Ive ever seen before. I tweak a few things in the programs because I dont think it focuses on building some smaller support muscles but otherwise Im really happy with it.

Supplements:
I take a mixture of syntec, max's and horleys protein so I dont get sick of any flavours. I have been happy with all of them. The best testosterone supplment I have found is by far axis-ht by bsn...far better results form this over androbolin etc. I take a mixture of creating ranging from syntec's creabolin, max's cre8 carnage and muscletechs nanovapour... All in all Im not a massive creatine fan though I know its good for gains but I dont like stomaching it. Its recovery results are worth the taste though. I rotate my testosterone and my creatine and have detox months.

Diet.... Tell me if Im wrong here but I can never stop eating. So I train with Max-OT 5 times a week with two heavy cardio sessionsgenerally midweek and weekend.

Usual day:
Breakfast: 6 eggs (only two yokes) on two pieces of low GI wholemeal, 1 avocado spread over it and one tomato. Protein shake (double serving) testosterone supplement

Smokeo: banana, tin of tuna and a protein shake

Lunch: Another 6 eggs same deal as breakfast but I also fry a full red capsicum and a heap of spinach with it.... another protein shake testosterone supplement

Afternoon tea: protein shake

pre workout: creatine on empty stomach

post workout: max's niight time protein

Dinner: Range of lean meats (Im really loving my kangaroo roasts.... there is like no fat in it and they come pre marinated...TASTES GREAT!!! I have large servings usually.) 3 colours of vegies, testosterone supplement

Bed time: another night time protein shake

What am I doing wrong? Or do you like it??

 

[Kyle Aaron]

What am I doing wrong? Or do you like it??

You tell us. Are you getting the results you want? If so, you're doing right. If you've been doing it for at least a month and it hasn't given you any results at all, or the opposite of what you want, you're doing wrong.

That said, I don't really see why you need all those supps... Most of them have zero effect other than the old placebo effect anyway.

What do you actually want to achieve? Get bigger? Smaller? Stronger? Fitter? Less fat? More fat? Flexible? Some sport you want to be better at? Or...?

What is Max-OT?

 

[Josh_GTiR]

Good to see you are squatting and deadlifting!

I too am interested in your program.

 

[Fadi]

What is Max-OT?

Hello there Gaucheharbor and welcome mate. Let me just explain to Kyle what the Max-Ot training sysytem is...

I find it to be a knee jerk reaction to all the high volume training done by bodybuilders who more than likely base their training on the pros who are "assisted".



The basics

• Frequency. Train each muscle group one session per week.
• Overload. Add either reps or weight to your lifts each week.
• Lift heavy, with maximum intensity. Use weights you could lift for no more than 6 reps, and do 4-6 reps per set. Increase the weight when you can comfortably do 6 reps per set.
• Be brief. Train only 1-2 muscle groups per session, with 6-9 sets per muscle group. This should total 30-40 minutes maximum per session.
• Utilise heavy compounds. Compounds are multi-joint exercises that recruit more than one muscle group, and are widely regarded as the best choice for building strength and mass.
• 1 week-off every 8 weeks. This gives your muscles and nervous system a chance to recover so that you stay gaining continuously.

A typical Max-OT routine



Monday - Chest & Triceps

• Chest

Bench Press 3 sets, 4-6 reps
Incline Bench press 3 sets, 4-6 reps


Weighted Chest Dips (wide grip) 2 sets, 4-6 reps

• Triceps

Close Grip Bench Press 3 sets
Overhead tricep extensions 3-sets , 4-6 reps



Tuesday- Back & Biceps

• Back

Weighted Pullups – 3 sets, 4-6 reps
Weighted Rows – 3 sets, 4-6 reps


Deadlifts 3-sets, 4-6 reps

• Biceps

Standing Barbell curls 3-sets, 4-6 reps
Hammer Curls, 3 sets, 4-6 reps

Wednesday – Off



Thursday – Legs and Shoulders

• Legs

Barbell Squats, 3 sets, 4-6 reps


Front Squats, 3 sets, 4-6 reps

• Shoulders

Dumbell Shoulder Press, 3-sets, 4-6 reps
Dumbell Front raise 3 sets, 4-6 reps
Dumbell Side Raise, 3 sets, 4-6 reps

Friday Calves, abs, forearms*
Standing Calf Raises 3 sets, 6-8 reps
Weighted Crunches 3 sets, 6-8 reps
Forearm curls 3 sets, 6-8 reps
Reverse forearm curls, 3 sets, 6-8 reps
*These muscles respond best to a slightly higher rep range, so they are trained at 6-8 reps.

Saturday: Off
Sunday: Off

You should perform that weight lifting routine every week for 8 weeks, then take 1 week off. You can either repeat the 8-week cycle as above, or make a couple of changes. You can swap in similar exercises for variation – e.g. switching from barbell to dumbbells on the shoulder or bench press. You may also wish to swap around the muscle group combinations - perhaps training chest with biceps and back with triceps, for example.

The Final Verdict

If you perform the routine above with good nutrition and rest, you are guaranteed to see excellent gains.

The advantage of Max-OT is that it is simple, effective and efficient – meaning that once you’ve got your routine set up, you just show up to the gym, increase the weight a little bit from last week, do your 40 minutes, and get out. It’s designed for maximum gains with minimal time spent planning or in the gym, so you can get on with other things in your life.

One criticism some people have of the routine is that it’s geared more towards building strength than size. Some people find that the low reps and heavy weight mean that by the end of the cycle they’ve added a lot of weight to the bar, without seeing much difference in the mirror.
One solution is to stick to the routine but simply do higher reps in the 6-10 range. Many people find they see more hypertrophy when they make that variation while sticking to the sound fundamental principles of training the Max-OT way.

I'll reserve my comments for now.


Fadi.

 

[Gauche]

It wont let me post an URL because I dont have enough posts. Just google Max-ot i think its the top page then.


I was going through a stage where I was angry i wasn't getting results to the point I was going to take roids. I spoke to my body building mate and he told me just to wait he'll speak to his friend that does comps etc and see what he says. He came back to me with Max-OT. Its free to sign up and other than the fact they push a few supplements on you during all their articles its really good!

Results: I always was massively obese through school and only lost my weight when I started playing foot ball in about 04. Since then I have ballooned a few times but never would you call me fit and healthy. About 2 years ago i was still weighing about 95kg had allot of fat(187cm). I was training hard three to four times a week but never got anywhere probably because Ive how much I eat. So i started max-ot about three months ago. I really gave this my all and did everything it said (except adding a few more lower back and rotator strength moves). I was only benching like 65 max and now im hitting 90kg max in three months. I have grown in size so much and all my remaining fat has been shrinking off even though I eat ALLOT and drink on weekends. Every week Im hitting PB's at the moment.

Fadi: As for our comment at the end I agree about the extra size from the reps... I was going to cycle with the HST training program for extra reps but now when I cycle Im just going to modify Max-ot like you said. I like the rawness of the 4-6 reps thought! Feel free to comment? Im open to ideas...

 

[Fadi]

It wont let me post an URL because I dont have enough posts. Just google Max-ot i think its the top page then.

Here you go Gauche, I've done it for you: http://www.ast-ss.com/maxot.php these are the people who designed it. So I went straight to the source. Here's how the second paragraph starts:

"Max-OT is a wake-up call to building muscle. Max-OT is built upon the very physiological science behind muscle growth. It takes this science and combines it with the bio-mechanical functions of the human body to generate muscle growth faster and more efficiently than any other training program ever designed".

Gauche, the irony of it, is that this people are playing on what they know is true and normal when someone drastically change their routine from high volume to low volume/low reps. They even give it away in their very first sentence here:

"The most frustrating aspect of weight training is busting your butt in the gym hour after hour, month after month, and year after year with little or no results to show for it".

Yes, that's not because people are not using the MAX-OT system, but simply because they have no idea on how to train, period! I don't like it Gauche; I don't like it when people play on your ignorance with a promise that "my program" is the program for you.

Low reps are not used for muscle hypertrophy; they cause hypertrophy as their secondary role whilst strength (and power), depending on some criteria is their main purpose.

OK, now I would like you to forget everything I wrote and start from this point... (Ok, 3 points ).

No one in the world can possibly doubt that this program will make you big. I've been training for a long time and have used so many different ways (due to my ignorance) it's not actually funny. I've written about the different muscle fibers and how each type will respond differently to different reps.

What do you want; strength and power? Then 1-5 must be your domain.
What do you want; type IIB hypertrophy? Then 6-8 must be your domain.
What do you want; type IIA muscle hypertrophy? Then stick with 9-12.
How about type I muscle hypertrophy? Then it's 25-50 thank you.

You can check it here: http://ausbb.com/bodybuilding-training-discussions/9124-fadi-bodybuilding.html

I always was massively obese through school and only lost my weight when I started playing foot ball in about 04. Since then I have ballooned a few times but never would you call me fit and healthy.

You probably don't realise it, but you've answered you're own question/curiosity. You were obese, and then you got physical through playing football and lost some fat mass. That tells me that you woke your metabolism up. Simple stuff really. Imagine if I met you just before you started your football training and said something like this to you: " hey there Gouche, you wanna lose some fat mate; no probs, follow this "diet". Now was it my "magic (bull) diet" that did it or was it your kick arse work sweating blood through playing football and getting back to being an active kid that killed it?! I think we both know the answer now champion.

About 2 years ago i was still weighing about 95kg had allot of fat(187cm). I was training hard three to four times a week but never got anywhere probably because Ive how much I eat.

OK, hard as in training hard is relative. If you have not kept a diary than I'd say it be near impossible for you to tell me what you were doing and show me how hard you were training. Then you say you got no where because of the amount you were eating? Are you serious? Check this then please:
http://ausbb.com/nutrition-diet/9018-fadis-13500-calorie-diet.html

I was only benching like 65 max and now im hitting 90kg max in three months. I have grown in size so much and all my remaining fat has been shrinking off even though I eat ALLOT and drink on weekends. Every week Im hitting PB's at the moment.

Great, so you are getting strong which is what supposed to happen on MAX-OT, and you're eating ALLOT without getting fat. Mmmm, I wonder if you've woken your metabolism again like you did back in 2004. Gouche, drinking, I don't do it. Not even soft drinks let alone the hard stuff. But I'm not your dad here, so I'll leave that one for you to work out.

You see Gouche, right now you're smashing PBs like there's no tomorrow; what would you do when that comes to a halt? Would you change the program and start looking for another? Would you modify it? Have you read my article called: "are you man enough?" Here: http://ausbb.com/bodybuilding-training-discussions/9374-you-man-enough.html

I'm going to end my comment by saying this: once you modify MAX-OT and introduce higher reps or whatever, then it will no longer be MAX-OT but something more on the line of MAX-GOUCHE-T. I'd like to say stay on it and continue getting results etc. But there's another side of me that is wondering if you have paid your dues by doing some high reps so as to develop tendon strength. At nearly 22, I doubt if you're thinking really long term here. Muscles get a lot stronger before an adaptation of tendons take place. Heavy weights place a huge demand on your young tendons; have you prepared them for the onslaughts and battles ahead, I wonder?

You probably weren't expecting this reply from me; but that's my way Gouche...all the way, or better reserve my comments and keep them to myself. All the best to you young Lion.


Fadi.

 

[lazy]

This is why I keep asking questions about this subject, one source could be wrong while the other could be right.

From what I understand strenght training only promotes two types of muscle hypertrophy:-

Myofribillate hypertrophy - Using 80~90% of your 1RM
Sarcoplasmatic hypertrophy - 12+ reps

These work (as mentioned on your post http://ausbb.com/bodybuilding-training-discussions/9124-fadi-bodybuilding.html):-

Fiber Types and Skeletal Muscle Hypertrophy
The force generated by a muscle is dependent on its size and the muscle fiber type composition. Skeletal muscle fibers are classified into two major categories; slow-twitch (Type 1) and fast-twitch fibers (Type II). The difference between the two fibers can be distinguished by metabolism, contractile velocity, neuromuscular differences, glycogen stores, capillary density of the muscle, and the actual response to hypertrophy (12).

Type I Fibers
Type I fibers, also known as slow twitch oxidative muscle fibers, are primaritly responsible for maintenance of body posture and skeletal support. The soleus is an example of a predominantly slow-twitch muscle fiber. An increase in capillary density is related to Type I fibers because they are more involved in endurance activities. These fibers are able to generate tension for longer periods of time. Type I fibers require less excitation to cause a contraction, but also generate less force. They utilize fats and carbohydrates better because of the increased reliance on oxidative metabolism (the body’s complex energy system that transforms energy from the breakdown of fuels with the assistance of oxygen) (12).
Type I fibers have been shown to hypertrophy considerably due to progressive overload (13,15). It is interesting to note that there is an increase in Type I fiber area not only with resistance exercise, but also to some degree with aerobic exercise (14).

Type II Fibers
Type II fibers can be found in muscles which require greater amounts of force production for shorter periods of time, such as the gastrocnemius and vastus lateralis. Type II fibers can be further classified as Type IIa and Type IIb muscle fibers.

Type IIa Fibers
Type IIa fibers, also known as fast twitch oxidative glycolytic fibers (FOG), are hybrids between Type I and IIb fibers. Type IIa fibers carry characteristics of both Type I and IIb fibers. They rely on both anaerobic (reactions which produce energy that do not require oxygen), and oxidative metabolism to support contraction (12).
With resistance training as well as endurance training, Type IIb fibers convert into Type IIa fibers, causing an increase in the percentage of Type IIa fibers within a muscle (13). Type IIa fibers also have an increase in cross sectional area resulting in hypertrophy with resistance exercise (13). With disuse and atrophy, the Type IIa fibers convert back to Type IIb fibers.

Type IIb Fibers
Type IIb fibers are fast-twitch glycolytic fibers (FG). These fibers rely solely on anaerobic metabolism for energy for contraction, which is the reason they have high amounts of glycolytic enzymes. These fibers generate the greatest amount of force due to an increase in the size of the nerve body, axon and muscle fiber, a higher conduction velocity of alpha motor nerves, and a higher amount of excitement necessary to start an action potential (12). Although this fiber type is able to generate the greatest amount of force, it is also maintains tension for a shortesst period of time (of all the muscle fiber types).
Type IIb fibers convert into Type IIa fibers with resistance exercise. It is believed that resistance training causes an increase in the oxidative capacity of the strength-trained muscle. Because Type IIa fibers have a greater oxidative capacity than Type IIb fibers, the change is a positive adaptation to the demands of exercise (13).

MAX-OT does not adopt 10+ reps because they believe in the myth of muscle memory (this theory has not been scientifically proven), and their concern regarding build up of lactic acid (break down muscle and stored as energy which occurs during high reps). There have been studies that I and II type fibers don’t grow as fast as other fibers.

This workout was writing from people who are already huge and that have won and competed in bodybuilding comps, I don’t believe they started with MAX-OT from the very beginning. http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/downloads/Max-OT.zip

The reason why I stick to Max-OT is because I have seen an increase in muscle gain, but then again when I started I was working only on type I and IIA fibers, perhaps I should try both for six months.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Mate, you are overthinking things. What it comes down to is that if your workout and diet are getting you where you want to go, keep going! If not, then change them. But give each a month or more to show some results.

Don't overthink it. People were able to make themselves fit, strong, flexible, and change the look of their physiques for literally thousands of years before anyone looked at muscle cells through a microscope, before protein powder or creatine or the zillion other supplements were invented.

The Ancient Greek Olympic sprint used to consist of running with a metal helmet, spear and heavy metal shield. For about 400 metres. Try that a few times a week and see if you don't get stronger and fitter. In 1,000BC the Chinese had their soldiers perform a lifting of stones or logs test. In 1569 a European wrote a book describing the importance of walking, throwing discus, climbing rope, lifting stones and using dumbells to develop strength and fitness.

Science is good - you'll often find me quoting studies to back up my points. But the basics of "lift heavy stuff, eat good food and get plenty of sleep" were known millenia ago and haven't changed.

Don't overthink it.

 

[Fadi]

This is why I keep asking questions about this subject, one source could be wrong while the other could be right.

From what I understand strenght training only promotes two types of muscle hypertrophy:-

Myofribillate hypertrophy - Using 80~90% of your 1RM
Sarcoplasmatic hypertrophy - 12+ reps

OK, so far so good...

The reason why I stick to Max-OT is because I have seen an increase in muscle gain, but then again when I started I was working only on type I and IIA fibers, perhaps I should try both for six months.

The above comment surprises me now Lazy; are you not convinced of the obvious. No need for a study here, just an observation of the way bodybuilders look and the way powerlifters/weightlifters look. I personally have never seen "fluffy" looking muscles on a huge powerlifter. What I see there is density personified. So when you say

perhaps i should try both for six months

It makes me wonder whether you're still in doubt of what you are saying; are you?


Fadi.

 

[ChrisOX]

all good info as always

 

[lazy]

You lost me Fadi, what I was trying to explain was ages ago I had done lots of workouts with very high reps, I did this for 2 years straight then I started with the MAX-OT program. From the two, heavier weights works the best for me, but also the more I read your posts the more it makes sense so maybe I should do sets with 6 reps, with 10, 20 etc.

If you want to read the complete workout, but ill problably stick with a hybrid.
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/downloads/Max-OT.zip

 

[Gauche]

All good information. I see what you mean don't change a good thing. I'll stick to it until it stops being a good thing I guess. I was just trying to gauge other peoples training methods and get them to poke holes in mine if need be. I will stick with the supplements. At the end of the day when i get a new one or another batch I'm so excited I always push my hardest because I wont the most out of them, so even if they do nothing they do that for me. My retail therapy! lol

What about all of you guys?

Whats your training achievements? Your program? Your Goals? Your diets?

 

[Josh_GTiR]

I think that last question is probably best for another thread and not your training thread Gauche. There are many threads around about strength goals and many people have training diaries to give all that info as well.

I also used to think like you with the supps Gauche, I used to say it is my money so who cares? Honestly though, these things do very little to help. Being your age, no "natural plant extract" is going to do much to boost your testosterone as you have such a high amount in you at that age as it is! Regardless, it is your decision, just keep in mind people are trying to help you, not ridicule you. We just hate seeing these large supp companies take money off people for products that are questionable at best.

 

[Gauche]

Yeah that's cool i understand. Thanks for the advice. Ill try and get through those other threads. The increase in my aggression and moods have to have something to do with the testosterone if even if its doing a bit I want any edge I can get you know. The further I go with my training the more I want to do, it just keeps building. Really want to boost my dead lift... I started doing them last week and I'm doing 65kg at 6 reps x 3 sets (good form, after quiet a large warm up because I'm afraid of injury). Just wanted to start easy with them for a bit I realize its a high risk sort of movement. Ill bump it up a bit next week. I'm considering keeping the weight off of these and leaving 65kg on it until my body completely gets used to the movment. What do you think?

 

[Josh_GTiR]

Just hit it man, if you have good form you shouldn't have an issue. Add 2.5kg or even 5kg at a time and you will be fine. I pissed around with deadlifts thinking the same thing (good form, blah, blah, blah) for FAR too long. 6 months ago I was having issues gripping 100kg, now I am eyeing off 180kg+.

Also, is agression really a good thing? Get your mates to slap you in the back of the head. That should help and it is free.

 

[Gauche]

HAHA! Nice. Will do! If I screw my back I'll send you the bill Aggression is the best! Love hitting the weights with it.

 

[ChrisOX]

Aggression is the best! Love hitting the weights with it.[/quote]

good Hustle mate thats wat i like to hear!!!

 

[Fadi]

You lost me Fadi, what I was trying to explain was ages ago I had done lots of workouts with very high reps, I did this for 2 years straight then I started with the MAX-OT program. From the two, heavier weights works the best for me, but also the more I read your posts the more it makes sense so maybe I should do sets with 6 reps, with 10, 20 etc.

If you want to read the complete workout, but ill problably stick with a hybrid.
[URL="http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/downloads/Max-OT.zip"]http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/downloads/Max-OT.zip[/URL]

Didn't mean to lose you there Lazy; I may have just gotten myself lost mate. It's all clear now, thank you very much for your input Champion.


Fadi.