My Off-Season Mass routine

[polishlifter]

Monday

Incline Dumbbell
3 sets, 6-8 reps
Incline Flyes
3 sets, 10-12 reps
Weighted Dips
3 sets, 6-8 reps
Cable Crossovers
3 sets, 10-12 reps

Tuesday

Deadlifts
3 sets, 6 reps
Wide grip pullups
3 sets, max reps
Low Cable Rows
3 sets, 6-8 reps for the first set, 10-12 for the next two
Lat Pulldowns
3 sets, 6-8 reps for the first set, 10-12 for the next two
EZ curls
3 sets, 8 reps
Hammer curls
3 sets, 8 reps

Thursday

Squats
4 sets, 6-8 reps
Leg extensions
4 sets with a "static hold" at the end of each set, 10 reps
Leg curls
3 sets, 8-10 reps
Standing Calf Raises
4 sets, 10-12 reps
Donkey Calf Raises
4 sets, 12-15 reps
Walking Dumbbell Lunges
3 lengths of corridor

Friday

Overhead Press
3 sets, 6-8 reps
Side/rear laterals
3 sets, 10 reps per set done in superset style
Shrugs
3 sets, 6-8 reps
Close grip press
3 sets 6-8 reps
Lying EZ extensions
3 sets 8 reps


Is it solid?

Only work sets are listed above. All sets to failure, utilizing a few partial or cheat reps on the last set (if that's safe)

Heavy weights + lots of rest + lots of sleep

 

[polishlifter]

I mean Id like to start that routine from next week. But I wonder how it looks for you? Would you change something? I would feel more comfortable if someone more advanced than me looked at it

(sorry for my English)

 

[Vandal]

Everyone trains differently. I would drop working sets down to 1-2 and add triceps to chest and Bis to back. Once you have lifted your maximum weight at any exercise, unless you can lift more the next set you will not reach Max contraction therefore only wasting fuel for your next exercise. As muscle fibres only get growth when Max contraction is hit. Try stick to 45-60mins sessions. Once you go over that timefrime your body produced cortisol which is a muscle wasting product, who end up eating into your gains.
Examples would be to see Dorian Yates train or read any scientific studies. Dont get me wrong 3 or more working sets does work for some people but nearly all studies show that 1-2 working sets is all that is needed.

This is just what I have been reading, as I have tried to stay away from believing anything magazines or supplement companies say and stick to exercise science studies. But at the end if the day it is what we works for you so just mix it up till.you find what works.

P.S diet is more important as you can train as much as you want and without eating correctly you will be like 90% of guys in the gym. The same size as when they walked in 2-3 yes ago.

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[Bazza20]

Everyone trains differently. I would drop working sets down to 1-2 and add triceps to chest and Bis to back. Once you have lifted your maximum weight at any exercise, unless you can lift more the next set you will not reach Max contraction therefore only wasting fuel for your next exercise. As muscle fibres only get growth when Max contraction is hit. Try stick to 45-60mins sessions.
Examples would be to see Dorian Yates train or read any scientific studies. Dont get me wrong 3 or more.working sets does work for some people but neaely all.studies show that 1-2 working sets is all that is needed.

This is just what I have been reading, as I have tried to stay away from believing anything magazines or supplement companies say and stick to exercise science studies. But at the end if the day it is what we works for you so just mix it up till.you find what works.

P.S diet is more important as you can train as much as you want and without eating correctly you will be like 90% of guys in the gym. The same size as when they walked in 2-3 yes ago.

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The studies that show 1 or 2 sets working as well as multiple sets are always done with untrained people. Which we know virtually anything will work. Bodybuilders, powerlifters and weightlifters all know the benefit of multiple work sets.

Diet isn't more important, they are both important.

 

[solarbear]

I might swap the days around. Not sure how your lower back will go squatting with only one day seperating it from dl. Might be fine, might be tired.

Ie squat, bench, off, dl, ohp, off, off

You also are very press heavy compared to back. A better balance between pressing and rowing might lead to a longer career as a lifter and a better physique. I'd drop the crossovers and tri ext for some high rep rowing... 50 reps of a rowing movement. The human back is designed to do a lot more work than 1 day per week.

One of your exercises might be done each day for high reps. A lot of blokes find better mass gains off high reps... like 15 to 20.

 

[Vandal]

The studies that show 1 or 2 sets working as well as multiple sets are always done with untrained people. Which we know virtually anything will work. Bodybuilders, powerlifters and weightlifters all know the benefit of multiple work sets.

Diet isn't more important, they are both important.

If you could show me studies for 3 or more working sets for a natural bodybuilders I would love to.read them. I not being a dick I would actually love to read them. Most studies conclude that the difference in set range does make much if a difference in size.
Do you agree that cirtsiol is released after the 45 min mark from testosterone depletion?

If so average of the working sets with proper rest to restore ATP levels would take an average of 2 mins rest per set. To stay within the desired time frame for muscle building without releasing cortisol you need to "get the weights warm up, change to appropriate weight, rest maybe wait for a bench do mutliple sets so you looking at about 8-10 min per exercise. You would be better of doing less working sets to stop over training whilst hitting all muscle fibres.

This is based on cortisil releasing at aprox 45 mins and restoring ATP phosphate energy system for maximum lifting strength each set.

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[Vandal]

This is also just my opinion on what I have read and tried. What works for me might nit work for you and nearly all my gains are foodand sleep related.

Sorry for spelling mistakes I am on the mobile.

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[Bazza20]

If you could show me studies for 3 or more working sets for a natural bodybuilders I would love to.read them. I not being a dick I would actually love to read them. Do you Ares that cirtsiol is released after the 45 min mark from testosterone depletion?

If so average of the working sets with proper rest to restore ATP levels would take an average of 2 mins rest per set. To stay within the desired time frame for muscle building without releasing cortisol you need to "get the weights warm up, change to appropriate weight, rest maybe wait for a bench do mutliple sets so you looking at about 8-10 min per exercise. You would be better of doing less working sets to stop over training whilst hitting all muscle fibres.

This is based on cortisil releasing at aprox 45 mins and restoring ATP phosphate energy system for maximum lifting strength each set.

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I would doubt there is any studies done on high level natural BBs. They are pretty much always done on untrained people. I am all for the scientific approach but appart from beginner trainees there isn't really much scientific stuff worth worrying about. So you have to look at training methods that have produced results in large numbers of people.

You still build muscle with longer than 45 minute workouts. Who gives a shit if a bit of cortisol is released. Big strong people have been doing workouts longer than 45 minutes forever and there muscles haven't wasted away.

You are not going to overtrain. Don't even worry about it.

You don't have to wait 2 minutes between warm up sets. You can pretty much do warmups as quick as you can change the plates.

Why do you have to wait 2 minutes between sets. You don't. You can take more or less time depending on your goals.

8-10 mintues pet exercise is low. There is nothing wrong with taking longer than 10 minutes per exercise.

And most importantly you are making this way too complicated.

 

[solarbear]

You don't have to wait 2 minutes between warm up sets. You can pretty much do warmups as quick as you can change the plates.

So true.

The work outs he has written up would take me 40-50 min tops.

 

[IRON TANKS]

How long have you been training, and what's the diet like?

 

[Vandal]

I would doubt there is any studies done on high level natural BBs. They are pretty much always done on untrained people. I am all for the scientific approach but appart from beginner trainees there isn't really much scientific stuff worth worrying about. So you have to look at training methods that have produced results in large numbers of people.

You still build muscle with longer than 45 minute workouts. Who gives a shit if a bit of cortisol is released. Big strong people have been doing workouts longer than 45 minutes forever and there muscles haven't wasted away.

You are not going to overtrain. Don't even worry about it.

You don't have to wait 2 minutes between warm up sets. You can pretty much do warmups as quick as you can change the plates.

Why do you have to wait 2 minutes between sets. You don't. You can take more or less time depending on your goals.

8-10 mintues pet exercise is low. There is nothing wrong with taking longer than 10 minutes per exercise.

And most importantly you are making this way too complicated.

As I said I basin this on having maximum strength for each set which needs high ATP level which takes atleast 2 mins to restore good levels. Also based on not realeasing cortisol as it feeds on muscle tissue.

You can alsway do what ever you want these are just the scientific studies of how your body works. If you wish not to use these then each to their own I was only offering scientific results.

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[Vandal]

I was only advising to add triceps to chest this would mean he would need more time. To create more time he could drop the amount of working sets to 2 giving him.plenty of time to add in triceps to chest and biceps to back.

The science was only there to explain why I thought that would be a good idea. Seeing as tho there is no science to prove this wrong why not offer that as a valid option as we are only here to help with knowledge.

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[Bazza20]

As I said I basin this on having maximum strength for each set which needs high ATP level which takes atleast 2 mins to restore good levels. Also based on not realeasing cortisol as it feeds on muscle tissue.

You can alsway do what ever you want these are just the scientific studies of how your body works. If you wish not to use these then each to their own I was only offering scientific results.

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Trust me I don't use them because they are a waste of time.

2 mintues isnt a magic number for rest between sets. It depends on so many factors. Conditioning, weight used, reps ect. The rest you need for max strength could vary from 30 seconds in a light warm up set to 10-15min or longer for a max high rep set, eg 20 rep squats.

In saying that sometimes you don't want or need full recovery between sets anyway.


All this talk of scientific studies. Can you please post up the ones you are referencing.

 

[Vandal]

I am on my phone so I just copied the first article that comes up fir a reference. You can even wiki it

http://www.aminoz.com.au/phosphate-system-a-139.html

Search everywhere and you will find that training more then 45-60min has negative affects on muscle gains.

Are you able to give me inside why you think it is bogus information

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[Vandal]

If the goal is to add mass why would you not want 100% of your strongest energy system?

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[bams_101]

If the goal is to add mass why would you not want 100% of your strongest energy system?

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The problem is that unless every set is kept under 30 seconds you're going to start dipping into muscle glycogen because the ATP-CP energy system is no longer predominant. Depending on the study 10-30 sec rest is all it to takes for PC stores to be at 50%. To be at or near 100% can be 3-5 minutes.

You mention Dorian and his low volume approach which is akin to DC style training as well. These are great if you have the necessary control to call upon maximal MU recruitment for you individually for 1 or 2 all out work sets. However the beginner lifter can only recruit a of fraction of the muscle fibres available so multiple sub-maximal work sets are used to fatigue the first called upon muscle fibres and recruit more so the work can be achieved.

The "study" you referenced is an article with no references to where they got their information. Browsing through quickly most of the information seemed accurate but I think Bazza was asking for actual studies.

Now for cortisol. Yes cortisol levels do rise after weight training around the 60 minute mark, however it is acute, meaning that the effects are the natural hormonal response. Test, IGF-1, GH and cortisol are the main hormones released when weight training. The first three are anabolic while Cortisol is catabolic. Now you say muscle fibres only get growth with a max contraction is hit when it is actually desctruction/ micro trauma that occurs.

Now CHRONICALLY high levels of cortisol is a different matter that CAN wreak havoc on the time and effort you put into gym. Sleep patterns, immunal response and blood glucose levels can all be negatively affected.

 

[Vandal]

The problem is that unless every set is kept under 30 seconds you're going to start dipping into muscle glycogen because the ATP-CP energy system is no longer predominant. Depending on the study 10-30 sec rest is all it to takes for PC stores to be at 50%. To be at or near 100% can be 3-5 minutes.

You mention Dorian and his low volume approach which is akin to DC style training as well. These are great if you have the necessary control to call upon maximal MU recruitment for you individually for 1 or 2 all out work sets. However the beginner lifter can only recruit a of fraction of the muscle fibres available so multiple sub-maximal work sets are used to fatigue the first called upon muscle fibres and recruit more so the work can be achieved.

The "study" you referenced is an article with no references to where they got their information. Browsing through quickly most of the information seemed accurate but I think Bazza was asking for actual studies.

Now for cortisol. Yes cortisol levels do rise after weight training around the 60 minute mark, however it is acute, meaning that the effects are the natural hormonal response. Test, IGF-1, GH and cortisol are the main hormones released when weight training. The first three are anabolic while Cortisol is catabolic. Now you say muscle fibres only get growth with a max contraction is hit when it is actually desctruction/ micro trauma that occurs.

Now CHRONICALLY high levels of cortisol is a different matter that CAN wreak havoc on the time and effort you put into gym. Sleep patterns, immunal response and blood glucose levels can all be negatively affected.

So would not the safest way to avoid any negative affects on muscle mass to keep training under 60mins?

If adding in an extra 3 exercises to a gym session (adding triceps to chest) could you not drop from 3 working sets down to 2 sets and add in triceps. Instead of risking cortisol and doing them on top of the session that already takes 60mins?
Would not waiting aprox 2mins which is 90% ATP recovery be beneficial?

That is all i was saying from the start, why not add some extra sets of arms and cut back some sets on the other exercises, as the difference between 2-3 working sets is not really enough to make a big difference. Though hitting your triceps for 3 exercise after chest would gains some decent results.

P.S really appreciate the in depth information, rather than someone just saying NO cause they think they are right with nothing to back it up. There are also studies to show that it is not acute, though you are right there are studies showing it is only acute but why risk it when it is so easily preventable.

 

[Vandal]

I also remember reading correct me if i am wrong but acute Cortisol also starts affecting protein synthesis so it does not waste muscle but still has an effect on muscle tissue.

 

[Bazza20]

Lol. That is NOT a scientific study.

Like bams said its chronically high levels of cortisol that would be a problem not the short term effects from a workout.

Again where are the scientific studies.

 

[Vandal]

Lol. That is NOT a scientific study.

Like bams said its chronically high levels of cortisol that would be a problem not the short term effects from a workout.

Again where are the scientific studies.

If you did not read Bazza i said i am on the phone and have no studies on hand, so i quickly searched a link.

There is no need to be a keyboard warrior and knock on everything with nothing but "trust me i don't use studies cause they are a waste of time". How about some real information to help everyone knowledge?

With most studies there are some that say they work some that say they don't. So why risk it the chances that one is wrong or right and stick to the best viable option is all i am saying.

If there is a possibility coritisol does play an effect on your muscle why risk it when it is so easy to keep the workout under 60mins by switching things around?