Just Beyond Beginners Program

[haz]

This is a program that i read about and thought that it covered all bases and would provide a challenge to all that tried it. Also i thought it would be a change for people who for the most part do the same workout every time they train.
Not for beginners but people who have made achieved a decent level of strength and feel that they would benefit from this program

"This is for the trainee who has been hitting the weights for a little while, but needs a better base. They need something that is not only going to give them some total body horsepower, but that will also better prepare them for future training beyond this cycle. This cycle will promote total body strength and mass development if accompanied by the proper recovery tools (e.g. eating right, getting adequate sleep, etc.)"

3 days a week
Day 1 Lower body
Squats 5x5
Barbell lunges 3x6
Good mornings 3x5-6
Glute ham raise 4x6-8
Back extension 3x8-10

Day 2 Upper body
Bench press 5x5
V-bar rows 4x8
Military press 3x6
Throat crushers 4x8 (similar to skull crusher but it bar lands over your throat)
Biceps- any exercise, 2 sets to failure.

Day 3 upper/lower assistance
Deadlifts (preferably sumo) 4x5
Close-grip bench press 5x5
RDL's 3x6
Sternum chin-up 3x5
Reverse hypers 3x10-15

Four week cycles.
Third week is the very high week and exercise should be safely taken to failure.
Every 4th week is a deload week and reps should be cut in half. but weights still high.

Original link - The Quest for Size And Strength | Articles | High Octane Corrective Exercise and Performance Enhancement at Robertson Training Systems

 

[Kyle Aaron]

I hope you'll post about your experiences with this programme from the hospital.

 

[haz]

are you scared of the good mornings and back extensions?

 

[Kyle Aaron]

It's not the exercises themselves, it's that several are together. Nor is it the lower back specifically, simply that it's the most worked muscle in his routine - overworked. It could as easily be the pecs or calves, but those affect your day-to-day life less.

Consider the muscles used in each exercise on Day 1: squats involve the lower back and glutes, as do lunges. He then adds in good mornings, glue ham raises (aka leg curls), and back extensions.

He then has you train the lower back on Day 3, with deadlifts, RDLs, and reverse hypers. Then Day 1 rolls around again, with all this sht again. What? I should have recovered by now? If I've recovered, why do I need to do a split workout? The whole point of splits is to let one set of muscles recover while I'm working out the other set.

This is overtraining, and overtraining postural muscles leads to all sorts of unpleasant results.

On Day 2 he throws in "throat-crushers", towards the end of the workout. Hey, last time I did squats and stuff, today I've benched and rowed and pressed, I'm pretty tired, what should I do? I know, while I'm tired I'll hold a heavy weight above my throat. Perhaps he's worried you're tired so he's offering you the chance of Final Rest.

If you survive that, he has you doing biceps exercises to failure, which will leave them tired out still by the next workout. Then in your next workout you do deadlifts and RDLs. Yep, just what we need when trying to lift heavy sht off the ground, tired-out biceps. (Yes, we're not bicep curling the deadlift weight; but the biceps do isometrically contract to help you hold up the weight.)

I think this bloke is one of those guys who's so used to training fit and strong athletes who are young and quite resilient against all sorts of training silliness, he's forgotten what genuine beginners - or "just beyond beginners" are like. Notice that his article makes no reference to results he's got with athletes doing this.

 

[Josh_GTiR]

Interesting, are you going to take this on Haz? I'd be interested to see your results.

 

[haz]

It's not the exercises themselves, it's that several are together. Nor is it the lower back specifically, simply that it's the most worked muscle in his routine - overworked. It could as easily be the pecs or calves, but those affect your day-to-day life less.

Consider the muscles used in each exercise on Day 1: squats involve the lower back and glutes, as do lunges. He then adds in good mornings, glue ham raises (aka leg curls), and back extensions.

okay, lunges do not use lower back. in the squat the lower back is used in a isometric hold. where is the place most people lose the squat? its when they lose the weight forward. therefore including goodmornings in their program will help stop this. also glute ham raise are not leg curls and are excellent for posterior chain development. back extension may be the only exercise that targets the "lower back".
also in your routine you do squats which as you say "uses" lower back, deadlifts which uses lower back, bent over barbell rows which uses lowerback, and military press which uses lower back. amazing. i cant believe you can still walk.

He then has you train the lower back on Day 3, with deadlifts, RDLs, and reverse hypers. Then Day 1 rolls around again, with all this sht again. What? I should have recovered by now? If I've recovered, why do I need to do a split workout? The whole point of splits is to let one set of muscles recover while I'm working out the other set.
This is overtraining, and overtraining postural muscles leads to all sorts of unpleasant results.

yes you should have recovered, it has been 4 days since you did day 1 and should be recovered. in your routine you do the same thing every second day, so that 1 day rest. and after all those postural muscle workouts, you must be a recovery machine.

On Day 2 he throws in "throat-crushers", towards the end of the workout. Hey, last time I did squats and stuff, today I've benched and rowed and pressed, I'm pretty tired, what should I do? I know, while I'm tired I'll hold a heavy weight above my throat. Perhaps he's worried you're tired so he's offering you the chance of Final Rest.

its sooo much worse then the weight being over you head in a normal skull crusher. and who said it had to be heavy? try it with a 10kg db see how you go. also if you dont like an exercise dont do it. its just an idea, do skull crushes if you think that there safer, but try the throat crusher you may like it.

If you survive that, he has you doing biceps exercises to failure, which will leave them tired out still by the next workout. Then in your next workout you do deadlifts and RDLs. Yep, just what we need when trying to lift heavy sht off the ground, tired-out biceps. (Yes, we're not bicep curling the deadlift weight; but the biceps do isometrically contract to help you hold up the weight.)

what you just said then was ridiculous.
your overreacting to the effect of going to failure. your bi's will be fine. you've never worked out sore from the previous workout?
also you dont train to failure? what happened when you miss reps trying to get your 3x5. didn't you just fail?

I think this bloke is one of those guys who's so used to training fit and strong athletes who are young and quite resilient against all sorts of training silliness, he's forgotten what genuine beginners - or "just beyond beginners" are like. Notice that his article makes no reference to results he's got with athletes doing this.

yeh he is used to training athletes and strong people. am i mistaken or is this the strength section of the forum. this is not for the casual person, it is for someone who is striving for high levels of strength. this article is not for genuine beginners. Markos said you are a beginner until you can BP 100. Squat 160 and deadlift 170. im pretty sure that this program would work well for them.

if you dont like the program dont do it. also i posted the program to give poeple ideas of how to set up a program. take from it what you like and leave what you dont. some people get way too caught up in following their program to a tee and not deriving from it. change is good.

 

[Josh_GTiR]

Change is good, I agree with that. I also think consistency and time spent on one program to get the most out of it is just as important.

When will you take this on Haz?

 

[haz]

Change is good, I agree with that. I also think consistency and time spent on one program to get the most out of it is just as important.

When will you take this on Haz?

oh yeh gotta give it a chance to work. but if you not seeing it work change that part of your program.
ill probably try it after christmas, thats when my current program finishes. ill re-evaulate goals.

 

[Josh_GTiR]

Are you going to do a "skills evaluation" at the end?

 

[haz]

Are you going to do a "skills evaluation"?

yeh its written into my program. 1rm for big 3 and 3rm chinup and broad jump (pretty much how far you can jump from a stand still) ill post results.

 

[Josh_GTiR]

3rm chin up? Is that with weights strapped to you?

 

[PTC]

I still feel that chinups are one of the purest movements in the gym and ruined with added weight.

This is possibly the only lift in the gym where I feel more weight is not better.

I would definitely check progress with how many dead hang dead stop overhand grip chins you can do in total.

Thats what I use to measure progress with chins. If I want to check overall back strength, powercleans or deadlifts.

 

[haz]

yeh with weight.

both valid tests. i suppose 3rm is chosen because its close to 1rm being max strength. i'll throw that test in next time i wanna test pull-ups.