Is this routine balanced or not?

[Jungnaut]

So, bear with me please as I want to know if what I have concocted using a mix of Bill Starr and Starting Strength programs is a balanced full body workout or not. I think it's ok but I want another opinion before I dedicate the next year or so doing it!

Day 1
Squat 3x5 , 1x8
Bench press 3x5 , 1x8
Seated Press 3x5
Pull-ups: 3 sets to failure, unweighted

Day 2
Light Squat 3x5 (80% current)
Press 3x5 , 1x8
Deadlift 3x5 , 1x8
Dips: 3x8, weighted

Day 3
Squat 3x5 , 1x8
Bench press 3x5 , 1x8
Rows: 3x5 , 1x8

- The backoff set of 8 is done with about 75% of the weight that was used for the 3x5 set.
- Start program with weight that is relatively easy i.e. ~ 90% current.
- 2.5% / week increase
- De-load every few weeks, e.g. every 6 weeks go back to the weight used 2 weeks previously.

I am only able to work out 3 times a week – Mon, Thur, and Sat because of work. I have allowed a lighter day on squats (Day 2) to give me a chance to recover as I was struggling with the heavy squats 3 times a week.

My goal is to get all my lifts up of course but am at the stage where the 2.5kg increase per workout was too much for my body to adapt, leading to injury and form breakdown. A 2.5% increase a week will allow me to focus on form and get everything down pat before advancing again.

These are exercises I am comfortable doing (no power cleans or snatches etc because I need a coach for that and I don't have one at the moment).

I have included accesory exercises like seated press, dips, and pullups to help me develop my shoulders and back more. I think they complement the main lifts. Am I wrong? If anything seems out of whack please advise!

 

[Goosey]

It looks ok
Why seated press and not standing?
A 20 rep squat back-off would be better.

I wont comment on anything else as I don't know how hard you work, and how long you've been at it I general, but the template you've pick looks balanced

 

[Bazza20]

I wouldn't bother with the light squat session. Either skip the squats that day or do them heavy, the light session is a waste of time in my opinion.

It may feel difficult for a start with 3 heavy squat sessions a week but you will get used to it in time.

 

[Jungnaut]

Why seated press and not standing?

Just for a bit of variation I guess. Seated DB press will work different parts of the shoulder, yes? If I just stick to Mp and don't worry about varying it then I can live with that.

A 20 rep squat back-off would be better.

A 20 rep squat back-off would be better. It sure is, but once it starts getting heavy I develop exertion headaches beyond the 10th rep.. I still haven't worked out what's the cause of this.

Either skip the squats that day or do them heavy, the light session is a waste of time in my opinion.

Interdasting! What if I swapped the light squats day with front squats instead? Again, for a bit of variance.

I've been at it consistently for the last 11 months now, but on and off training for a coupla years. At Intermediate strength level. The last 11 months have been the most productive though (due to learning on how to train correctly from this forum and not fucking around with useless stuff like brocurls at the squat rack haha)

 

[OldManMuscle]

If it's a three day a week routine, you'd best talk in terms of day 1, day 3, day 5 followed by two days rest etc. As to whether or not it's balanced ... Well, no, I personally do not think it's balanced: for example, there's no calf work at all. Unless you are genetically blessed with good calves, you'll find yourself looking like 90% of failed bodybuilders with pathetic twigs supporting thick quads and you'll never win a bb comp ever.
Bugger all hammies, for that matter.
Triceps are only gonna if you do narrow grip dips and triceps give arms their size.
For me, it wouldn't permit enough rest time on the major muscle groups before you hit them again, and I can have Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness of 4 days for pecs and quads especially. I never train these bodyparts more frequently than every 5 days (although I sometimes hit chest twice a day). But if you're young and juiced up and getting a lot of sleep, you might be OK.
I've always thought Bill Starr's theory was over-rated, but it might work for lifters who don't care what they end up looking like. Me, I'm a bodybuilder, hence calves have been a priority for 25 years because I was built like Sylvester Stallone in the legs department. Now they're very strong but only passable in appearance.
But in the final analysis, only you will know if it's a good routine, so try it and find out. Report back in 6 - 8 weeks!

 

[Goosey]

I've found the most common problem with the headache is head position.
When you do a twenty repper make sure your head is not too far back as it places pressure on the nerves In the neck, a sort of valsalva effect.

You head and the spine in general has to be in a neutral position.

I think squatting as often as you can so important and I like the lighter squat session for that reason.

 

[McKwl]

Since you're asking about balance, I'd have to say the program has problems:

5 x push vs. 3 x pull (per week), for starters. A lot of people make this mistake, or so I hear. If anything, most guys should be doing a bit more of the "pull" type lifts vs. "press" type lifts - again, so I hear.


edit: I like the idea of front squats for the second day. They rawk, IMO.

 

[Goosey]

If it's a three day a week routine, you'd best talk in terms of day 1, day 3, day 5 followed by two days rest etc. As to whether or not it's balanced ... Well, no, I personally do not think it's balanced: for example, there's no calf work at all. Unless you are genetically blessed with good calves, you'll find yourself looking like 90% of failed bodybuilders with pathetic twigs supporting thick quads and you'll never win a bb comp ever.
Bugger all hammies, for that matter.
Triceps are only gonna if you do narrow grip dips and triceps give arms their size.
For me, it wouldn't permit enough rest time on the major muscle groups before you hit them again, and I can have Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness of 4 days for pecs and quads especially. I never train these bodyparts more frequently than every 5 days (although I sometimes hit chest twice a day). But if you're young and juiced up and getting a lot of sleep, you might be OK.
I've always thought Bill Starr's theory was over-rated, but it might work for lifters who don't care what they end up looking like. Me, I'm a bodybuilder, hence calves have been a priority for 25 years because I was built like Sylvester Stallone in the legs department. Now they're very strong but only passable in appearance.
But in the final analysis, only you will know if it's a good routine, so try it and find out. Report back in 6 - 8 weeks!

Nothing personal but I hate these sort of responses, I like all exercises but I beleive you first need to master the multi joint movements that biuld a strong
body.

For a young person there is plenty of time.

 

[Bazza20]

If it's a three day a week routine, you'd best talk in terms of day 1, day 3, day 5 followed by two days rest etc. As to whether or not it's balanced ... Well, no, I personally do not think it's balanced: for example, there's no calf work at all. Unless you are genetically blessed with good calves, you'll find yourself looking like 90% of failed bodybuilders with pathetic twigs supporting thick quads and you'll never win a bb comp ever.
Bugger all hammies, for that matter.
Triceps are only gonna if you do narrow grip dips and triceps give arms their size.
For me, it wouldn't permit enough rest time on the major muscle groups before you hit them again, and I can have Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness of 4 days for pecs and quads especially. I never train these bodyparts more frequently than every 5 days (although I sometimes hit chest twice a day). But if you're young and juiced up and getting a lot of sleep, you might be OK.
I've always thought Bill Starr's theory was over-rated, but it might work for lifters who don't care what they end up looking like. Me, I'm a bodybuilder, hence calves have been a priority for 25 years because I was built like Sylvester Stallone in the legs department. Now they're very strong but only passable in appearance.
But in the final analysis, only you will know if it's a good routine, so try it and find out. Report back in 6 - 8 weeks!

Any pressing hits the triceps hard and there is pressing in each session.

For Hams. Squats and deads?


You don't need to be juiced up to train body parts multiple times a week. That is a load of crap.

 

[Goosey]

Since you're asking about balance, I'd have to say the program has problems:

5 x push vs. 3 x pull (per week), for starters. A lot of people make this mistake, or so I hear. If anything, most guys should be doing a bit more of the "pull" type lifts vs. "press" type lifts - again, so I hear.


edit: I like the idea of front squats for the second day. They rawk, IMO.

I do agree, more pull than push is key.

Do you think mckwi that squats are in fact also a back builder?

 

[The Hamburgler]

Not directly, but imo you need a big back for a big squat, though not necessarily a big squat for a big back

 

[McKwl]

Do you think mckwi that squats are in fact also a back builder?

Um... maybe indirectly, a bit?

Honestly, I dunno mate. Strikes me that squats alone wouldn't be sufficient to keep my back as "strong" (lol) as the rest of me, but then, they could be adding some extra foundation there that I'm not aware of. Not like I'm about to stop doing them, either way...

So many conflicting opinions about almost everything, is what I see online (Squats build abs! / No they don't! - just as one example)... so the overall effect is, I don't have a fucking clue what's true about a lof of this shit. Just some of the absolute basics, and what I consider common sense.


edit: Ninjaed, by someone who probably does know his stuff, heh.

 

[Goosey]

Not directly, but imo you need a big back for a big squat, though not necessarily a big squat for a big back

Yeah, we often talk about how squatting will provide the ability for growth of all muscles and not just the muscles doing the mechanical work, sort of like dropping a stone in water creating a ripple, I believe this is so true, the squat stimulates the endochrine system.

 

[Goosey]

It's interesting to note that the muscles doing the work are the largest muscles I the body, causing the most pain and creating a huge hormonal response.

 

[Jungnaut]

Yeah, we often talk about how squatting will provide the ability for growth of all muscles and not just the muscles doing the mechanical work, sort of like dropping a stone in water creating a ripple, I believe this is so true, the squat stimulates the endochrine system.

Well, if your back is weak there is no way a big squat can be properly executed! I find that my back feels way more hammered after squats than my quads, hammies, and on par with the glutes. For me the back is the weak link that prevents me from squatting bigger with good form, not my legs.

 

[Jungnaut]

Since you're asking about balance, I'd have to say the program has problems:

5 x push vs. 3 x pull (per week), for starters. A lot of people make this mistake, or so I hear. If anything, most guys should be doing a bit more of the "pull" type lifts vs. "press" type lifts - again, so I hear.


edit: I like the idea of front squats for the second day. They rawk, IMO.

Thanks for pointing this out, I didn't notice this before. So what would you recommend for more pull work (I already have pendlay rows and pullups, they are the most effective exercises as far as I am aware) and which push work can I drop without hesitation?

 

[nazzysmith]

Thanks for pointing this out, I didn't notice this before. So what would you recommend for more pull work (I already have pendlay rows and pullups, they are the most effective exercises as far as I am aware) and which push work can I drop without hesitation?

That and more squats....

 

[Bazza20]

Thanks for pointing this out, I didn't notice this before. So what would you recommend for more pull work (I already have pendlay rows and pullups, they are the most effective exercises as far as I am aware) and which push work can I drop without hesitation?

Don't drop any push. You are likely going to do more reps on pull ups than 5 each set so the pulling volume and push volume will be similar. Don't over think this.

 

[OldManMuscle]

I'm not a fan of the push/pull distinction. For example, deadlifts require you to pull with your traps and push with your quads. To be honest, I tend toward the following simple split:
Day 1: Quads.
Day 2. Chest and triceps.
Day 3. Hammies and calves.
Day 4. Back, traps and biceps.
Day 5. Rest.
Day 6. Start again.
But I like to do something slightly different every workout, which is not easy when you've been training for 35 years ...

 

[DREADLIFT]

I was into body part training initially, but have definately grown to training movements. Especially for the beginner and building a good base.

A good alternate for the light squats would be squats for reps 3x10 or as you said front squats


If you.can learn the powerclean, it is deffinately a significant pull exercise to utilise. Compliments the deadlift withput impacting it or your squars negatively. Its a fast twitch (explosive type ab1-2 whatever dominant) so you shouldnt be significantly fatigued doing them at the end of a workout.