I cant afford any supplements. What can i do?

It depends on your goals.

For pure weight-gain and to power and recover from your workouts, skim milk powder is the cheapest way to go. I'm not sure why you'd need to add sugar to it, it's very sweet already and has lots of carbs in it. I guess Milo is useful for flavouring it up, I just scull it back so it could taste like dog poo and it wouldn't matter much

Skim milk powder isn't good for a cutting period, obviously, where you'll want a genuine protein powder.

I don't believe in multivitamin tablets, I believe in food. A protein/carb drink is just useful for its quick digestion, and/or for when you're finding it difficult to eat enough proper food to bulk up.

Tekkerz said:

Taken from Gold Medal Nutrition by Glenn Cardwell, sports dietitian so I'll write it verbatim....................etc

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WOW! thanks man, but just a question how do i take it? like how long before workout how long after in mornin before bed etc etc

Still thanks for that

If you are trying to bulk up I recommend having a serving of this powder included with you breakfast everyday and maybe another serving mid afternoon or about 20 minutes after you work out and then again in the evening 1-2 hours after your evening meal if you haven't eaten much meat that day.

Remember it's just meant to 'supplement' your existing diet so don't forget to eat plenty of whole foods, plenty of beans and veggies and really live like a carnivore, by that of course I mean try and get your protein from as many different healthy meat sources as you can (fish/seafood/chicken/pork/STEAK/STEAK/STEAK you get the idea...)

Phippsy said:

WOW! thanks man, but just a question how do i take it? like how long before workout how long after in mornin before bed etc etc

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It seems that people get the best results if they have it immediately before and immediately after their workout. Funnily enough, 100g (say) of protein and carbs at breakfast is not the same as 100g of protein and carbs just before and just after the workout.

I mean, whenever you have it, it'll do you good - but it does you more good and give you more strength and size gains if you have it right before and right afterwards.

The exact science of it is a bit foggy, but it seems like some before gives you fuel to go hard out in your workout, and some afterwards puts fuel back in the tank, and goes to work rebuilding those muscles you tore up with all that heavy lifting.

So I make up a drink of 500ml milk, 100g skim milk powder and 3 eggs, this gives me 70+g of protein, 70+g of carbs, and 44g of fat, altogether 1,000 calories. Half before, half after the workout. As a tall skinny young bloke you might have to increase those quantities, though.

Or just drink heaps of milk, like 4 litres a day.

Kyle Aaron said:

It seems that people get the best results if they have it immediately before and immediately after their workout. Funnily enough, 100g (say) of protein and carbs at breakfast is not the same as 100g of protein and carbs just before and just after the workout.........etc
.

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Ok thanks kyle and what do you suggest i do? like me being young tall and slim. Like how much do you suggest i take? oh and i have a diet plan here it is so far


Breakfast

• 3 Eggs (6grams protein per egg)
• Yogurt (8.6grams protein)
• Oats (???)
• 2-3 glasses of milk (9.5g protein per glass) - Also might use that shake now so i get more intake =)

Snack - Morning Tea

• 1 banana (???)
• 1 orange (???)
• 1 tin backed beans (9.7grams protein)
• 1 bottle milk with milo (18-25grams protein) - Also might use that shake now here =)

Lunch

• 2 tuna salad sandwich (18grams protein each sandwich)
• and yet again more milk (10grams protein) - and again might supplement with that shake =P
• handful of nuts (??)

Snack - Afternoon

• 1 bowl pasta (15-25grams protein depends how hungry i am)
• 1-2glasses of milk (9.5-19grams protein)
• handful of nuts (??)

Dinner

• not sure what ever is made, usually pasta or steak and veg or somthing healthy (parents are health nuts lol)

Snack - Before Bed

• 1 Banana (???)
• Yogurt (8.6grams protein)
• Milk (9.5-19grams protein) - and yet again might supplement with that shake for a good b4 bedtime protein hit.

So is this to much not enought or what? yer just would like to know thanks =P

I can't say exact amounts, mate, as I'm not a dietician or nutritionist, and even if I were I've not met you, measured you, interviewed you and so on - whatever some morons say, you can't do that sort of thing over the internet. We can make general recommendations only.

However, my general feeling is that you'll probably need more starchy stuff. Your bowl of oats should be big as. The bread for the sandwiches should be big chunky slices you cut off a loaf yourself. Your bowl of pasta should be a big bowl, people should say, "wow, are you really going to eat all that?!"

I would recommend more vegetables and fruit. You should have a piece of fruit in the morning, lunch, afternoon and for dessert at dinner. You should also have lots of vegies, two or three times a day.

You can get things like eggplants, pumpkins, capsicum and so on and slice them up and roast them in the oven, nice for sandwiches. You can make pasta sauces with lots of vegies, too.

Make sure you have plenty of starchy stuff, add in some more fruit and vegies and see how you go with your diet. If you grow, it's enough. If after a month you've seen no change or you've shrunk, that means you need to eat more.

It probably all seems like a crazy amount of food to you right now, but believe me, once you get lifting you'll get hungrier.

What about tuna. At Aldi Supermarkets I can get a big tin of sandwich tuna for 99 cents and it contains near 30 grams of protein!

Tekkerz said:

Taken from Gold Medal Nutrition by Glenn Cardwell, sports dietitian so I'll write it verbatim:

'If you really believe you need a protein supplement here is one that will save you heaps of money. I named it after myself, in the hope of gaining a place in history. You can make it for around 20% of the retail cost of a similar protein powder.

1 kilogram skim milk powder
7 tablespoons sugar
7 tablespoons flavour (e.g. Milo, Nesquick)
1 multivitamin tablet (optional)

Method: Mix together. Add powder to water. Add sugar and flavour to taste.

Nutritional analysis per 100 g of powder:
Protein 27 g
Carbohydrates 62 g
Fat 2 g
Calcium 980 mg
Energy 1540 kj (370 Cals)

Compare these figures with the ones on your protein powder. If you want to make the vitamin figures look more impressive then add an inexpensive multivitamin tablet.

Remember:

• You body cannot tell the difference between expensive, imported protein and locally made protein. If you truly believe you need extra protein, then an inexpensive drink like Glennergy is the way to go.
• You protein powder may have more protein, mainly because it has had the carbohydrates extracted. Compare the cost per gram of protein.
• Glennergy also makes an ideal pre-sport meal. You may want to blend in some fruit rather than adding flavouring.'

Addenda

• Active people and athletes need protein in increased amounts when compared to spectator.
• The protein needs of an athlete can be met adequately with a variety of healthy foods.
• An inexpernsive milk-based protein drink like Glennergy or Triple G can be a useful adjunct to a healthy diet.
• Protein can be converted to glucose to be used as a muscle fuel, but this usually only occurs near the end of endurance sports such as triathlons, marathons or iron man events

Interesting fact: protein powders and weight gain powders have virtually the same ingredients as weight loss powders - milk powder, soy protein, sugars, vitamins and flavour.

So there you go Phippsy I hope that helps you out.

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Thats not a protein shake, its a carb shake. The carbs are more than double the amount of protein!

Put your habits into perspective.
I can`t comment on you because I don`t know anything about you but
most people I hear say they can`t afford the time or money to do whatever
would gladly fork out for a few beers a day or a can of coke.Spend wisely
and supplements can cost only a few bucks a day - sometimes even less
than all the non essential stuff we blow money on.
As for food,check out bulk feed stores.They may be able to get bulk skim milk,oats etc. for you.Years ago me and my dirt poor flatmates used to buy 25kg boxes of chook fillets and freeze them in ours,our mums and anyone else`s freezers.
As everyone else has said you can`t beat the basics.Eggs,milk,fruit and veg,meat and grains.

Hey guys i got skim milk powder today =) two bags of 1kg. But i duno if it was the right stuff. It says it gives 10.8g protein per serving (which i think is 1 cup or somthin makes 250ml). Is that good? like will that give me like 30g protein per 100g?

cause im stumped lol (not to good at math etc)

First up, you really should change your avatar. Maybe to a pic of yourself? I don't like to hear that American-style "I'll give 110%" super-optimistic-like-on-drugs nonsense, but labelling yourself "loser" is going too far, mate.

The powder is meant to be put in with water to make milk. Natural milk is mostly water anyway.

I don't know the figures on your skim milk powder, but mine is (by weight), about one-third protein and one-half carbs. If I get a measuring jar and scales, I find that 1 metric cup is 100g of skim milk powder

As I've said, my own workout drink is,

500ml milk, 3 eggs, 1 cup skim milk powder​

and it gives me 73g protein, 80g carbs, 44g fat, and 1,000 kcal. I have half before and half after each workout.

Basically, have a healthy diet with lots of fresh fruit and vegies, nuts and beans, and some meat, some fish and some dairy. That keeps your body going as it is. The extra to build up comes from the workout drink. You don't really need to read after this, it's all details for interest.

The Australian Institute of Sport, who probably know something about increasing muscle mass, tell us that

So, you must eat more than you need to just to keep yourself going, in the amount of 500-1,000 calories a day. And you must have 1.2-2g protein per kilogram of bodyweight.

As I said, the workout drink supplies 1,000 calories, so if the rest of your diet is fine then there's your extra energy you need to grow.

The average 70kg person will need 70g protein to maintain their size, that's easy. A 185g tin of tuna has about 45g protein, an egg has about 7g, a handful of nuts 20g or so, and so on. To grow they'll need 84-140g protein, well the workout drink is 73g, on top of a healthy diet that's plenty.

Kyle Aaron said:

First up, you really should change your avatar. Maybe to a pic of yourself? I don't like to hear that American-style "I'll give 110%" super-optimistic-like-on-drugs nonsense, but labelling yourself "loser" is going too far, mate.

The powder is meant to be put in with water to make milk. Natural milk is mostly water anyway.

I don't know the figures on your skim milk powder, but mine is (by weight), about one-third protein and one-half carbs. If I get a measuring jar and scales, I find that 1 metric cup is 100g of skim milk powder

As I've said, my own workout drink is,

500ml milk, 3 eggs, 1 cup skim milk powder​

and it gives me 73g protein, 80g carbs, 44g fat, and 1,000 kcal. I have half before and half after each workout.

Basically, have a healthy diet with lots of fresh fruit and vegies, nuts and beans, and some meat, some fish and some dairy. That keeps your body going as it is. The extra to build up comes from the workout drink. You don't really need to read after this, it's all details for interest.

The Australian Institute of Sport, who probably know something about increasing muscle mass, tell us that

"To gain muscle mass effectively, a positive energy balance of at least 2000-4000 kilojoules [500-1,000 kcal] per day is required. This calls for a general increase in dietary intake. However, carbohydrate is the first nutrient to focus on, since muscle must be fuelled to do the training to stimulate muscles to grow. It is also important for athletes trying to gain muscle mass to meet their increased protein needs, but huge protein intakes are not required. In most cases, a high-energy diet that provides 1.2-2g of protein per kilogram of body mass will ensure that protein needs are met."​

So, you must eat more than you need to just to keep yourself going, in the amount of 500-1,000 calories a day. And you must have 1.2-2g protein per kilogram of bodyweight.

As I said, the workout drink supplies 1,000 calories, so if the rest of your diet is fine then there's your extra energy you need to grow.

The average 70kg person will need 70g protein to maintain their size, that's easy. A 185g tin of tuna has about 45g protein, an egg has about 7g, a handful of nuts 20g or so, and so on. To grow they'll need 84-140g protein, well the workout drink is 73g, on top of a healthy diet that's plenty.

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There you go kyle changed. And srsly thank you so much for sharing your recipie its helped me gain 2kg in this month =) im hoping to reach the 60kg mark by December im 54kg currently so still got a long way to go

Thanks to everyone else as well

Kyle Aaron said:

So I make up a drink of 500ml milk, 100g skim milk powder and 3 eggs, this gives me 70+g of protein, 70+g of carbs, and 44g of fat, altogether 1,000 calories. Half before, half after the workout. As a tall skinny young bloke you might have to increase those quantities, though.

Click to expand...

Hey Kyle,
I thought that milk wasn't ideal for pre/post workout due it's slower digestion.
I've read arguments from both sides of the fence. I believe Fadi's diet plans show protein + water for pre/post, but that may be due to the fact he doesn't drink too much milk himself.

Interested to hear your thoughts.. As I'm sure you have investigated this topic quite well yourself!

Cheers

phippsy, I am glad to see a happier avatar from you! I'm even gladder to hear you're achieving your goals.

raphsta, I have investigated it a bit, but not an enormous amount. The short answer is, "it makes a little bit of difference, but let's leave that to the experts and advanced people, and focus on the big stuff first."

The long answer is below

As I see it, nutrition is on a line like this.


Notice that "ordinary" diets are on the "bad" side, not in the middle. Lots of junk food, booze, not much vegies, and so on. Makes people a bit tired all the time, and they often get sick.

A "good" diet - lots of fresh fruit and vegies, nuts and beans, some meat, fish and dairy, and starchy stuff in amounts depending on whether you want to get bigger or smaller - is way the other side. A "perfect" diet is just a small step beyond that.

The "good" diet is so much better than the ordinary that to my mind, it's good enough. To make it "perfect" means worrying about many many small details, and it has to be really individualised - this person bloats up a bit with high carb diet, that person does well on it, this person feels a bit off when they eat lots of meat, that person is anaemic, and so on.

Fadi wants to make things perfect. I just aim at "good". So yes, there are issues about how quickly milk digests, and whether cooked eggs digest more quickly than raw ones, and whether having so much sugar in one hit (as in 100g skim milk powder) does things to your insulin, or whatever.

But they're not big issues. The ordinary person with an ordinary diet is going to feel so much better with a "good" diet than they did before, I'm really not worried about making it perfect. I'll leave that to more knowledgeable people.

Notice that I usually keep my advice to beginners. So I keep it basic. For example, let's say someone comes to me who can't do a single chinup, can only bench press half their bodyweight, and doesn't squat. And they ask me about four variations of bicep curls. I'm going to say, "You have to walk before you can run, don't worry about that stuff, bench, chin and squat for several months first."

Supplements and the perfect diet can really put the finishing touches on an already great physique, or help get someone an extra few kilograms on their powerlifts. But you need that solid foundation of good training and diet first. There's no use polishing the car if the tyres are flat.

avoid fats around training time

raphsta said:

Hey Kyle,
I thought that milk wasn't ideal for pre/post workout due it's slower digestion.
I've read arguments from both sides of the fence. I believe Fadi's diet plans show protein + water for pre/post, but that may be due to the fact he doesn't drink too much milk himself.

Interested to hear your thoughts.. As I'm sure you have investigated this topic quite well yourself!

Cheers

Click to expand...

Raphsta,

My understanding is that the main protein in milk is casein, which is a slow digested/absorbed protein due to the way it coagulated in the stomach when chymosin, a stomach enzyme come into contact with it. So even skim milk which is devoid of fat, will still slow the digestion/absorbtion process when the alternative is what is needed at around training time.

Milk is #1 before bedtime for the same reason it's not great around training time!

I must add that Kyles' points are also valid for the reasons he allocates for them. I can take it up a notch and say do not eat fruits or certain fruits after/before training or at any other times unless you're really hungry, (which is a big mistake to be in in the first place if your aim is to create an anabolic environment whilst minimising a catabolic one).

So yes, we can become extremely precise about every minute detail of what we take in; but Kyle is looking at the big picture which is in my opinion where everyone ought to be focusing on before taking it up a notch.

Upg is also right in what he says about fat around training time. Fat is great in stabilising your insulin; that's not what I'm after at around training times when cortisol is knocking on the door to eat few grams of my muscles.

Fadi.

Think of this way, supplements are like a dessert. If you train hard then your body deserves it. But with what i've read probably would go with milk like everyone else that suggested, I just wouldn't use eggs in my mix because of the chances of salmonella, ah too much hygine classes for me at school, but some people will argue its a low chance to get it but whatever it just my personal view on it, so i would just stick with milk. Milk take it throughout the day with your meals, supplements like i said above, but people usually take it in the mornings,p-workouts and before sleep.

Tekkerz said:

Taken from Gold Medal Nutrition by Glenn Cardwell, sports dietitian so I'll write it verbatim:

'If you really believe you need a protein supplement here is one that will save you heaps of money. I named it after myself, in the hope of gaining a place in history. You can make it for around 20% of the retail cost of a similar protein powder.

1 kilogram skim milk powder
7 tablespoons sugar
7 tablespoons flavour (e.g. Milo, Nesquick)
1 multivitamin tablet (optional)

Method: Mix together. Add powder to water. Add sugar and flavour to taste.

Nutritional analysis per 100 g of powder:
Protein 27 g
Carbohydrates 62 g
Fat 2 g
Calcium 980 mg
Energy 1540 kj (370 Cals)

Compare these figures with the ones on your protein powder. If you want to make the vitamin figures look more impressive then add an inexpensive multivitamin tablet.

Remember:

• You body cannot tell the difference between expensive, imported protein and locally made protein. If you truly believe you need extra protein, then an inexpensive drink like Glennergy is the way to go.
• You protein powder may have more protein, mainly because it has had the carbohydrates extracted. Compare the cost per gram of protein.
• Glennergy also makes an ideal pre-sport meal. You may want to blend in some fruit rather than adding flavouring.'

Addenda

• Active people and athletes need protein in increased amounts when compared to spectator.
• The protein needs of an athlete can be met adequately with a variety of healthy foods.
• An inexpernsive milk-based protein drink like Glennergy or Triple G can be a useful adjunct to a healthy diet.
• Protein can be converted to glucose to be used as a muscle fuel, but this usually only occurs near the end of endurance sports such as triathlons, marathons or iron man events

Interesting fact: protein powders and weight gain powders have virtually the same ingredients as weight loss powders - milk powder, soy protein, sugars, vitamins and flavour.

So there you go Phippsy I hope that helps you out.

Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for that, I'm going to try this out!!!!!!!

The Hulk said:

Kyle, is long life milk nutritionally as good as fresh milk?
I know that long life milk is heat treated, and I like the slight difference in taste of it better than fresh milk, but is it as effective?

If it is, then why wouldn't everybody just buy UHT long life milk which lasts nearly forever in the cupboard?

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Shit sounds healthy to me

Milk is already a terribley processed food. (unless you are buying organic unhomogonised) please eat as natural as possible...



You can get this at woolies $2.50L organic unhomogonised. I reccomend the light one as oestrogen is a fat soluble hormone and transfered through digesting fat from the animal.