How Much Training Until You Get Sore

[dandexter]

I see people around over the years saying that you have to get sore to get bigger. Which I somewhat dis-agree with as I've gain a fair amount of muscle with rarely getting sore.

I've been lifting for quite a few years now progressively adding more and more volume (and weight when appropriate) but still seldom get sore muscles.

It's got to the point where I don't know if I should keep adding more volume or not. A typical bench/tricep workout that I don't feel the next day...

Bench Press - 10sets x 12-15reps
Incline Bench Press - 10sets x 12-15reps
More Bench Press - 10sets x 12-15reps
Dumbbell Bench Press - 10sets x 15-20reps
Tricep Exercise 1 - 10sets x 15-20reps
Tricep Exercise 2 - 10sets x 15-20reps

All sets are as heavy as I can do for the desired rep range, if I can get extra reps, I do.

Most other muscles are trained with the same volume.

I change the exercises around every 3-4 months, but pretty limited as I train in my house.

So was wondering how much training other people need to do before getting sore?

 

[Shrek]

Try something different such as reduced rest time, drop sets, forced reps or negatives. Then you'll see feel soreness.

 

[Darkoz]

The tiimes I've noticed that you get sore are after a layoff from working out or when you do something considerably different.
Not being sore after a workout doesn't mean you're not doing it right or that nothing's happening, I would be more concerned if I was always sore after a workout.

 

[Repacked]

Frequency is a key factor. A split where everything gets trained once per week - I will get quite sore. Atm 2 out of 3 weeks everythings getting hit twice. DOMS is minimal. The only objective measure of progress over time is weight on the bar and/or gains. Not soreness post workout.

 

[Goosey]

The only objective measure of progress over time is weight on the bar and/or gains. Not soreness post workout.

Word
its the *only* measure

 

[Timeah]

Yep. Up the frequency.
Train everything twice currently? Hit everything 3x.

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[Fadi]

I see people around over the years saying that you have to get sore to get bigger. Which I somewhat dis-agree with as I've gain a fair amount of muscle with rarely getting sore.

I've been lifting for quite a few years now progressively adding more and more volume (and weight when appropriate) but still seldom get sore muscles.

It's got to the point where I don't know if I should keep adding more volume or not. A typical bench/tricep workout that I don't feel the next day...

Bench Press - 10sets x 12-15reps
Incline Bench Press - 10sets x 12-15reps
More Bench Press - 10sets x 12-15reps
Dumbbell Bench Press - 10sets x 15-20reps
Tricep Exercise 1 - 10sets x 15-20reps
Tricep Exercise 2 - 10sets x 15-20reps

All sets are as heavy as I can do for the desired rep range, if I can get extra reps, I do.

Most other muscles are trained with the same volume.

I change the exercises around every 3-4 months, but pretty limited as I train in my house.

So was wondering how much training other people need to do before getting sore?

Soreness should never be your gauge to progress. That does not mean it's worthless, but you need to look at it in the context of your overall training. For example, stretching a muscle whilst under load can cause a tremendous amount of muscle damage at the micro level (and soreness due to some deep inflammation the next day), but end up yielding little gains if any that would correspond or match that soreness (if soreness was your only gauge for muscle growth). What sort of exercise places a muscle in a stretched position under load? One very popular exercise would be the chest d/bell flys. Another would be overhead triceps extensions, yet another would be Romanian or stiff legged dead lifts, for example.

Sometimes you can actually get smaller due to this soreness. Why would that be? Because the muscle damage caused through deep inflammation, overwhelms the recovery process, and instead of your rest and nutrients serving their main purpose in healing you, before supercompensating you with more than you began with, you'd end up being stuck in the "healing" process so to speak, and miss out on any additional and/or potential progress made through resting and eating.

The fundamental formula for progress and growth is very simple really: it's about the regulation of protein synthesis vs protein degradation...., over time. Granted many factors play a part to get that balance right, but once you've got that balance in favour of MPS, you're on a winner.

 

[bull]

60 sets at a challenging level of resistance? Either your strength endurance is phenomenal or the weight could be a lot more challenging. Have you tried 30 set workouts with heavier weight?

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[Grunta]

60 sets at a challenging level of resistance? Either your strength endurance is phenomenal or the weight could be a lot more challenging. Have you tried 30 set workouts with heavier weight?

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That's exactly what I thought when I read that, 40 sets on bench alone?
Where does this kunce get the energy from?
My chest is fucked after 15.

 

[Bazza20]

Yeah I didn't read that at first. If you can do that much most of those sets are not hard enough and a waste of time.

 

[steveP]

I've found that soreness mostly relates to frequency. If you train quite regularly (nearly everyday), you've rarely get sore unless you do something out of the ordinary with your training.

Also if I'm not eating or sleeping enough I'll notice my recovery is hindered and will consequently be a bit sore.

 

[Bazza20]

Yeah low frequency is a sure way to constantly get muscle soreness.

 

[Goosey]

I don't actually believe that muscle can or feel pain sense, I think where pain is coming from is the surrounding tissue like the bursar, ligaments and tendons, which would explain why pain is felt after an exercise you're not use to or had done in a while.

 

[Repacked]

I don't actually believe that muscle can or feel pain sense, I think where pain is coming from is the surrounding tissue like the bursar, ligaments and tendons, which would explain why pain is felt after an exercise you're not use to or had done in a while.

Skeletal muscle contains nociceptors which are responsible for the sensation of pain -

[FONT=&quot]Muscle pain is produced by the activation of specific receptors (so-called nociceptors): these receptors are specialized for the detection of stimuli that are objectively capable of damaging tissue and that are subjectively perceived as painful. They consist of free nerve endings and are connected to the central nervous system (CNS) by way of unmyelinated (group IV) or thinly myelinated (group III) fibers. They can be sensitized and activated by strong mechanical stimuli, such as trauma or mechanical overloading, as well as by endogenous inflammatory mediators including bradykinin (BK), serotonin, and prostaglandin E2 (PGE2).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Two activating chemical substances are particularly important for the generation of muscle pain: adenosine triphosphate (ATP) and protons (H+ ions). These chemical irritants activate nerve endings by binding to receptor molecules located in the membrane of the nerve ending. ATP activates muscle nociceptors mainly by binding to the P2X3 receptor molecule, H+ mainly by binding to the receptor molecules TRPV1 (transient receptor potential vanilloid 1) and ASICs (acid-sensing ion channels) (4). These receptor molecules are channel proteins that span the membrane of the nerve ending and mainly permit Na+ ions to enter the neuron. These Na+ ions then induce neural excitation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2696782/[/FONT]

 

[Goosey]

Skeletal muscle contains nociceptors which are responsible for the sensation of pain -

Muscle pain is produced by the activation of specific receptors (so-called nociceptors): these receptors are specialized for the detection of stimuli that are objectively capable of damaging tissue and that are subjectively perceived as painful. They consist of free nerve endings and are connected to the central nervous system (CNS) by way of unmyelinated (group IV) or thinly myelinated (group III) fibers. They can be sensitized and activated by strong mechanical stimuli, such as trauma or mechanical overloading, as well as by endogenous inflammatory mediators including bradykinin (BK), serotonin, and prostaglandin E2 (PGE2).
Two activating chemical substances are particularly important for the generation of muscle pain: adenosine triphosphate (ATP) and protons (H+ ions). These chemical irritants activate nerve endings by binding to receptor molecules located in the membrane of the nerve ending. ATP activates muscle nociceptors mainly by binding to the P2X3 receptor molecule, H+ mainly by binding to the receptor molecules TRPV1 (transient receptor potential vanilloid 1) and ASICs (acid-sensing ion channels) (4). These receptor molecules are channel proteins that span the membrane of the nerve ending and mainly permit Na+ ions to enter the neuron. These Na+ ions then induce neural excitation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2696782/

what's it sayin?

 

[Shrek]

I've said it before and [MENTION=2727]Fadi[/MENTION]; touched on this: exercises with an exaggerated stretch component such as SLDL, calf raises, lying tricep ext tend to result in more sorrness than say squats or ohp where there is little muscle stretch. Happens to me anyway.

 

[Repacked]

what's it sayin?

Basically that there are a couple of mechanisms relevant to exercise that can cause these nociceptors which are located within muscle tissue to cause pain.

You lazy bastard.

 

[Repacked]

I've said it before and @Fadi; touched on this: exercises with an exaggerated stretch component such as SLDL, calf raises, lying tricep ext tend to result in more sorrness than say squats or ohp where there is little muscle stretch. Happens to me anyway.

Because you are literally stretching the sarcomeres within myofibrils and stressing the structures.

 

[Shrek]

Correct.
Let's all go home now. ?

 

[Repacked]

Don't let the door hit ya where god split ya.