help please, TIME TO CUT?

[chris_bulking]

Hey all,

been bulking for about 4months, i have gained 10-11kilos.

I started bulking very dirty, eating everything in site and realise i was gaining to much fat, recently i have started eating very clean, not much fats, havn't had any fast food in about a month.

I have noticed good gains in traps, arms, lats/back, chest, and especially legs however i have gone from 33inch waist to 34.5 inch waist...still have a visible "4pack" when tensed..

question is..time to cut? or just keep eating lean and bulking for another 5-10kilos or so?

 

[Kyle Aaron]

That's up to you. What are your goals? Do you need to be cut for some coming event? Will being cut make your workouts harder (because you have less energy reserves) or easier (because you're more confident)?

Is the muscle or fat going on quicker, or about the same?

If you're putting on more muscle than fat, just be patient. You'll get there naturally.

If you're putting on more fat than muscle, then wind back on the fatty foods some more.

If you're putting on muscle and fat, then whether you want to lose 2kg fat while at 80kg bodyweight or 2.5kg while at 100kg bodyweight won't make any difference, it'll be just as easy or hard.

The only other issue is that increasing size quickly - whether from fat or muscle or both - may give you stretch marks which stay for years (I still have them on my inner arms and thighs from 15 years ago), and decreasing size quickly may give you saggy skin. The decrease shouldn't be a problem unless you're going from a real preggy belly to buff really quickly. But the increase could be an issue.

But really this is up to you. You need a list or pros and cons or something. Why cut now? Why not? Why not later? Why later? What are your goals, and times for those goals to be achieved?

 

[chris_bulking]

That's up to you. What are your goals? Do you need to be cut for some coming event? Will being cut make your workouts harder (because you have less energy reserves) or easier (because you're more confident)?

Is the muscle or fat going on quicker, or about the same?

If you're putting on more muscle than fat, just be patient. You'll get there naturally.

If you're putting on more fat than muscle, then wind back on the fatty foods some more.

If you're putting on muscle and fat, then whether you want to lose 2kg fat while at 80kg bodyweight or 2.5kg while at 100kg bodyweight won't make any difference, it'll be just as easy or hard.

The only other issue is that increasing size quickly - whether from fat or muscle or both - may give you stretch marks which stay for years (I still have them on my inner arms and thighs from 15 years ago), and decreasing size quickly may give you saggy skin. The decrease shouldn't be a problem unless you're going from a real preggy belly to buff really quickly. But the increase could be an issue.

But really this is up to you. You need a list or pros and cons or something. Why cut now? Why not? Why not later? Why later? What are your goals, and times for those goals to be achieved?

Hey mate, Thanks for the quick reply.

There is no upcoming event or anything like that, as stated earlier i was eating very "dirty" but for the past 2-3weeks i have cut back nicely ensuring i get good carbs in, high quality foods.

I just wanted to get someone elses advice, im growing at a pretty steady rate so hopefully no stretch marks (using coco butter and shit :S it supposedly prevents them or even reduces them if they come).

I'm putting on a lot more "muscle" size versus "fat" probably 80 vs 20% the fat just seems to go to my mid section/lower back..hopefully i wont add that much now that i have fixed my diet.

Sounds good then, will continue the bulk for another 10ish or so kilos, or just see how i feel myself. Of course i would be more confident with low low body fat but confidence isn't really an issue atm, like i know what im aiming for, the loss of my 6pack -> to a four with a bit of fat isn't an issue.

Just wanted to see if a 1.5inch increase on waist was major? My arms and stuff are still relatively lean, added good size to legs... callipers said i was 15% mark, also it was 4 point test 2 points on lower back/abdominals (adipose) so probably affected results..

So its relatively easy to cut off the extra kilos around the midsection and what not? Just for when im ready...lower cals? HITT and just what do i do with training i dont want to lose mass/strength.


Thanks a lot !!
Chris.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

I don't think 1.5" is a major issue in itself, certainly not health-wise. It's only if it's 1.5" every month...

If you've been doing a lot of ab work that can add a little bit, not more than an inch but still. If you see this anatomical drawing,

the obliques there are typically very weak on an untrained person, and can actually slope in; when built up, they take up more space. So if you've kept the same body fat total but done a lot of ab work, your waist measurement can actually increase a little bit. But as I said, that's probably not the full 1.5", but might be 0.5"-1" of it. Or if you've done little ab work, 0"

Caliper tests you want to take with a grain of salt.

One of the assumptions behind the caliper test is that fat is spread evenly over your body. And we all know that describes almost no-one. You touched on this mentioning that your own was concentrated in a couple places. That's the reason most caliper tests choose 10 points - on men, chest above nipple, midaxillary (under pec towards back), bicep, tricep, suprailiac (hip), subscapular (under shoulder blade), lumbar (lower back), thigh and calf; on women, the tricep is omitted - not just 4.

With 10 points, I've seen the same guy caliper tested by three different trainers, and it was +/-5%. With 4 points, it was +/-15%. The scientific sources tell us that the best that can be achieved is +/-3.5%, simply because of wonky calipers, different brands having different pressures, amount of water in the person varying, and so on. So a 100kg man could lose 3.5kg of fat and gain 3.5kg of muscle, or vice versa, and the caliper test mightn't tell you that - but with the extra weight you could lift, and a mirror, you could tell.

At best, if you took the test every week or so and graphed it, the inaccuracies would shake out and show you an overall trend - but only if the change were greater than the inaccuracies, like from 35% fat to 10% fat, whereas if it's 20% to 15% you couldn't be sure.

The real test is how healthy and energetic you feel, and if you're happy with your appearance. I know that's hard to put numbers to, though, and numbers make things easier.

How easy it is to cut off the extra kilos varies a lot, in my experience. But if you're bulking up with muscle so well, you have got the muscle tissue to eat up the fat, and you obviously have the discipline to do the cardio and/or change your diet, so I'd be surprised if you had a lot of trouble. The ones who have trouble are usually those of low muscle mass and without discipline.

 

[chris_bulking]

I don't think 1.5" is a major issue in itself, certainly not health-wise. It's only if it's 1.5" every month...

If you've been doing a lot of ab work that can add a little bit, not more than an inch but still. If you see this anatomical drawing,

the obliques there are typically very weak on an untrained person, and can actually slope in; when built up, they take up more space. So if you've kept the same body fat total but done a lot of ab work, your waist measurement can actually increase a little bit. But as I said, that's probably not the full 1.5", but might be 0.5"-1" of it. Or if you've done little ab work, 0"

Caliper tests you want to take with a grain of salt.

One of the assumptions behind the caliper test is that fat is spread evenly over your body. And we all know that describes almost no-one. You touched on this mentioning that your own was concentrated in a couple places. That's the reason most caliper tests choose 10 points - on men, chest above nipple, midaxillary (under pec towards back), bicep, tricep, suprailiac (hip), subscapular (under shoulder blade), lumbar (lower back), thigh and calf; on women, the tricep is omitted - not just 4.

With 10 points, I've seen the same guy caliper tested by three different trainers, and it was +/-5%. With 4 points, it was +/-15%. The scientific sources tell us that the best that can be achieved is +/-3.5%, simply because of wonky calipers, different brands having different pressures, amount of water in the person varying, and so on. So a 100kg man could lose 3.5kg of fat and gain 3.5kg of muscle, or vice versa, and the caliper test mightn't tell you that - but with the extra weight you could lift, and a mirror, you could tell.

At best, if you took the test every week or so and graphed it, the inaccuracies would shake out and show you an overall trend - but only if the change were greater than the inaccuracies, like from 35% fat to 10% fat, whereas if it's 20% to 15% you couldn't be sure.

The real test is how healthy and energetic you feel, and if you're happy with your appearance. I know that's hard to put numbers to, though, and numbers make things easier.

How easy it is to cut off the extra kilos varies a lot, in my experience. But if you're bulking up with muscle so well, you have got the muscle tissue to eat up the fat, and you obviously have the discipline to do the cardio and/or change your diet, so I'd be surprised if you had a lot of trouble. The ones who have trouble are usually those of low muscle mass and without discipline.

Thanks for the help mate, appreciate it. I will keep on doing what im doing, only put on that 1.5inches in about 4months...and im sure that isn't anywhere near the 11kg i have put on!

Yeah, was reading into inaccuracies of calliper test, user measurement is also a normal major problem..people pinch the muscle sometimes if they are inexperienced.

I am happy with my appearance, because i know i am making mass gains and getting bigger, when the time comes to lean down i'm sure i have the discipline to do so!

Thanks again.