Help A Beginner

[Kurt]

Hey All,

Long time reader first time poster.

Ok well here's my story. I've recently joined the gym (Around 1 Month Ago) with my mates. I'm a really skinny guy at 6'3 I Weigh around 74KG. I've now been eating as much as i can for the last month and drinking plenty of milk ontop, don't mind if i gain some fat.

Ok, well here is my workout, gather from some of the people on her plus and minus some things.

Warm up
5 Min Jog (13km/h average) followed By Stretches

Work Out. (Mon, Wed, Fri)
Bench Press 8 Reps of max weight then 8 push ups straight after x 3 (Super Sets ?)
Pull Ups & Chin Ups 8 Reps of each x 2
Squats 8 Reps x 3
BB Rows (Bent Over or Standing which is best ?) 8 Reps x 3
Military Press (Overhead Press of dumbells) 8 Reps x 3
45 deg leg press 8 Reps x 3
Bicep Curls 8 Reps x 3 (Mate insists on doing this)
Triceps (not sure what its called pulling rope over head as bent over works triceps well though)


Thats my workout, what do you guys think. Only thing is Its now wednesday and i still have Soar to touch pecs should i leave bench press out today ? Or just tough it ?

This workout apears to be working very well for me though. I've gained 4-5 KG's so far, not really sure if its too visable though. so up to 78/79 KG's.

Bench press up from 40KG to 55KG, and gains in everything else too.

Edit : I would like to do Deadlifts, next time i see someone doing it i'm going to ask them if they would mind explaining teqnique etc as i don't want to hurt my back. (Both people i work out with refuse to do them as they can't have a soar back for work)

Thanks for the help guys, Kurt.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

If some part is sore to touch and a little bit stiff, that's what's called "DOMS", delayed onset muscle soreness, fancy way of saying, "I worked it, and it hurts the day after."

You can work out with DOMS, just make sure you have plenty of warmup activities. As you're doing already - 5-10 minutes of walking to the gym, bike or treadmill - and some low weight high rep sets before the work sets.

So you're doing weights Mon/Wed/Fri, if you do some cardio Tues/Thu/Sat, you'll find you get better results in your weights sessions - you'll recover more quickly between sets, get less DOMS, and so on.

I would say you're probably doing a bit too much in terms of exercises, you're spread too thin. As a beginner you can usually get away with it and will make gains anyway. However, I still suggest having fewer exercises and really concentrating your efforts on them. You'll get better results in the end.

Rather than 2 sets of chins and 3 of BB rows, or 5 in all, it's better to do 4 of chins or 4 of BB rows. They hit the muscles slightly differently, so perhaps you could break it up a bit.

For example,

Workout A
Squats, 4 sets
Chins, 4 sets
Bench, 4 sets

Workout B
Deadlift, 4 sets
BB rows, 4 sets
Military press, 4 sets

In each session you have one exercise hitting your legs and lower back, one hitting your upper back, and one hitting your chest and shoulders. Do the squats and deadlifts first, because they're the hardest.

With each exercise, the first set is a warm-up. If you can normally bench say 8 reps of 50kg, for your warm-up you'd do 15-20 reps of 25kg.

The next three sets, load up your work weight, and see how many reps you can get. If you can do 15 reps, then on your next set add some weight. If you can do 12 reps of that, on your next set add some weight. You should do at least 6 reps in your last set.

The idea is to find some weight where you can only just manage 6 reps. With the three work sets, you're pushing out that max effort for those 6 reps. After doing that weight a couple of sessions, you'll find that you can do a 7th or 8th rep. Keep adding reps as you can each session until you can do 12 reps. When you can do 12 reps, add some weight and do 6 reps with that.

And so on. In each case you're beginning with 6 reps, adding reps until you reach 12, then adding weight and dropping back to 6 reps.

It's a bit different with the chins, there you have to begin by not worrying about how many sets and reps, just trying for a total of 30 reps, then next week 35, 40, 45 and finally 50. When you've done a total of 50 reps a few times, you'll probably be able to do 3 sets of 10-12. Once you can do sets of 12 chins, you can add weight by a belt or dumbell between your feet, and it's just like the other exercises from then on - new weight, 6 reps, increase reps until 12, then more weight, repeat.

If you do this for the six lifts, with 3 lifts each session, you are going to get stronger and bigger. And you won't have much energy left for BB curls, believe me. If you do, then go ahead and add a couple of dumbell exercises.

And do cardio on the alternate days. An hour's walk or half hour jog is enough.

After you've done this for 3-9 months you'll have some excellent strength and mass gains, and you can look at splitting up your workout into chest days and legs days, or more dumbell work to sort out some weakness, or whatever. But build a solid foundation first.

You're doing well, and I says cheers to you on your efforts. It's ****ing hard but it's worth it.

 

[kindred]

Either i went back in time or there was a server roll back.

or an admin went deletey happy.

 

[Kurt]

Either i went back in time or there was a server roll back.

or an admin went deletey happy.

???????

 

[kindred]

there was a heap of posts here that arent now

 

[PowerBuilder]

There's some good advice there Kyle, well done mate.


I'm fairly new around these here parts, therefore i don't know Kyle, but what he's said is actually some pretty good advice. As a beginner, you can pretty much do anything & grow like a weed, providing that you get the calories in.

I dont really want to stick the boot in, so i'm not going to give contradictory training advice. In terms of diet, try not to have an attitude of 'if it's edible, eat it', since, your body can only use so much energy, then it turns into fat. Which isn't much fun from anybody. I come from more of a nutrition approach of bodybuiding / strength training.

have you posted up your diet here yet, kurt ? i'd love to see what it is & help you become better than who you think you can become!

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Don't be shy to post up your own ideas and experiences, mate. This is not a hierarchy, and if it were I'd be at the bottom.

 

[Kurt]

Well not sure where to post up what i've eaten so i'll do it here. (This is usually what i eat)

Breakfast. (6.45 - 7.00)
6 Weetbix with lots of milk
700ml milk + Milo.

Meal 1. (9.30-10.30)
Ham Sandwhich
Banana
Usually second banan between 10.30 and 12.00

Lunch. (12.00 - 12.30)
Last nights dinner ; Could be pasta / chicken / yesterday was mince and veges

Meal 3.
2xLow Fat yogurt.
Roll up (Was meant to be musli bars but nonein the cup board)
Ham Sandwhich

Meal 4. (Doesnt really happen too often)
Might make toast or a sandwhich before gym

GYM NOW...

Meal 6.
Whatever is going, last night was a T-Bone Steak with mashed potatoe peas and carrots

Desert.
Banana Smoothie or
700ml of milk + Milo (Usually This)
Toast with vegimite and cheese

Throughout the day I have 2ltrs of water. (Went from no water and two cans of soft drink)

I'm a hard gainer, and am tall and skinny ...

Gym was good last night, did what kyle said and started of with cardio. Jogged an average of 11-13km/h for 10mins i was so stuffed. Then went onto the cross trainer.

(except for feeling sick from pushing myself so hard at cardio)

Today very soar.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

In the beginning, go slower and longer. Does your treadmill in the gym have a heart rate monitor? If so, try a walk of 6km/hr and see what your heart rate is over about 10 minutes. Aim for something like 120-130 beats per minute. The 11-13km/hr is probably taking you to 150-180 beats per minute.

Basically, forgetting about beats per minute - you want to be able to do a sustained, 30 minute effort to get a cardio benefit. So it should feel like a jog, you get warm, the sweat rises after a few minutes, but you can still talk and your steps are smooth and even.

If it feels like a sprint, where you get hot, you're dripping with sweat, your steps are not smooth you're almost stumbling and you can't talk except to swear briefly, then you're going too hard. No-one can keep that up for more than ten minutes.

 

[CaT_SPeW]

if your looking to build strengh and size the treadmill and cross trainer aren't gonna do shit

 

[Kyle Aaron]

They will if you do them three times a week on your non-weights days, hyjak. If nothing else, when you build fitness you recover more quickly between sets. But there are other benefits. Obviously trying to be a marathon runner and a professional bodybuilder, you'd have to choose. But most of us are not aiming at either extreme, and a beginner doesn't have to decide anyway, they can just improve their overall strength and fitness.

A certain level of fitness is also recommended for general health.

 

[CaT_SPeW]

didnt realise it was a non weights day. nevertheless he says he wants to build strength and isnt concerned about gaining some fat so why burn a stack of calories on the days that his body needs them the most? feed and recover the day after a weights session

 

[Kurt]

In the beginning, go slower and longer. Does your treadmill in the gym have a heart rate monitor? If so, try a walk of 6km/hr and see what your heart rate is over about 10 minutes. Aim for something like 120-130 beats per minute. The 11-13km/hr is probably taking you to 150-180 beats per minute.

Basically, forgetting about beats per minute - you want to be able to do a sustained, 30 minute effort to get a cardio benefit. So it should feel like a jog, you get warm, the sweat rises after a few minutes, but you can still talk and your steps are smooth and even.

If it feels like a sprint, where you get hot, you're dripping with sweat, your steps are not smooth you're almost stumbling and you can't talk except to swear briefly, then you're going too hard. No-one can keep that up for more than ten minutes.

I sounded alot more like option 2 !

Today my legs are fubared though.

if your looking to build strengh and size the treadmill and cross trainer aren't gonna do shit

I'm well aware that i'm not going to gain much mass if any from cross trainers and tread mills. But this is to keep myself half fit and do some running.

They will if you do them three times a week on your non-weights days, hyjak. If nothing else, when you build fitness you recover more quickly between sets. But there are other benefits. Obviously trying to be a marathon runner and a professional bodybuilder, you'd have to choose. But most of us are not aiming at either extreme, and a beginner doesn't have to decide anyway, they can just improve their overall strength and fitness.

A certain level of fitness is also recommended for general health.

And very true, i'm not interested in being either a marathon runner or a body builder.

Reason i'm going is to get bigger, and ofcourse be a little fitter.

Won't walking / jogging excessive amounts hinder my progress in gaining mass as i already have a very high matabalism ? And struggle to gain weight...

I was under the impression that cardio exercise is in the upper range of your hbpm and fat burning was in the lower range ? ?

 

[Kurt]

didnt realise it was a non weights day. nevertheless he says he wants to build strength and isnt concerned about gaining some fat so why burn a stack of calories on the days that his body needs them the most? feed and recover the day after a weights session

Very true, i'm thinking that maybe i could add in one cardio session a week for starters and see how i go with that...

 

[CaT_SPeW]

this is just my opinion so take it along with everyone elses. personally i'd be doing 3 weights training session per week with rest days in between. if you feel your general fitness and cardiovascular is lacKing then do some cardio on the weekends like HITT or Tabata. google them for more info. Tabata is the shit for cardio, you'll see LOL

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Won't walking / jogging excessive amounts hinder my progress in gaining mass as i already have a very high matabalism ? And struggle to gain weight...

No, it won't. If it did, all bodybuilders would ride home in a wheelchair and sleep all day, desperately avoiding anything that might bump up their heart rate and make them breathe heavily.

What is true is that as humans, most of us can only max out in one area. You can't build huge amounts of mass and run your fastest 5km ever. You have to focus on one or the other.

Put it this way, your strength and fitness are rated at one of:- untrained, novice, intermediate, or advanced.

• Untrained means what it sounds like. You're new, not sure what you're doing, your gains are less to do with a real improvement in strength and fitness and more to do with just learning the right technique for the bench press or whatever.
• Novice means that you have the basics going, and have a level that can support recreational activities, like social football.
• Intermediate means you stand out in any social sports team, your slack friends will know you as "that strong/fit guy", and if you stopped now and came back to it, while you'd drop back to untrained, you'd get back to intermediate relatively quickly.
• Advanced means you could compete in that area, as a powerlifer or marathon runner or whatever.

At this stage, from what you've said you're untrained, you want to build your strength and fitness both to novice level. You can do them both at the same time. Once you're a novice, most people can maintain one while building the other, but they can't build both at once. Once you're intermediate in both, almost nobody can be advanced in both.

Being untrained, at this stage you can train both strength and fitness.

I was under the impression that cardio exercise is in the upper range of your hbpm and fat burning was in the lower range ? ?

It's all cardio. Anything which raises your heart rate improves your body's ability to move blood through your body. There is not much evidence for a "fat-burning" range or anything like that.

Think of sprinters: when they zap through 100, 200 or 400 metres, do you think their heart rate is near max, or around 120? It's maxed out, of course. And what do they look like?

Low body fat. Thus, blasting along at max heart rate must be good for getting rid of body fat.

However, hikers, mountain climbers and the like also tend to have low body fat.

They are both low body fat. The sprinter has more muscle bulk, but we'll get to that in a moment.

Basically, any time you get your heart rate up and keep it there for a while, you're going to burn some fat.

So the issue is not which activity burns fat - they all do. The issue is what your strength and fitness goals are, and what you as an untrained person can handle. You can -

• sprint for a few minutes,
• run for 10 minutes,
• jog for 30 minutes, or
• walk for 120 minutes.

If you want to improve your fitness, then you want to improve your ability to put out an effort over time. Sprinting and running, where you put out a lot of effort over a short time - that's just like weight training. Weight training has you put out a lot of effort in a short time. This builds bigger muscles. Do lots of sprints, get bigger legs - that's why sprinters have muscle bulk.

But you're already doing weight training for your legs - you don't just want big legs, you want to be fit, right?

You want to be able to have a medium or low effort over a long time. That's fitness. So you want to jog or walk. If you're a few km from work or shops, then go ahead and walk for an hour or two each day, or an hour or three every second day. That'll improve your fitness, no need to go to the gym.

If you're too far from work/shops, and/or you don't want to spend 1-2 hours a day walking, then a 30 minute jog will do it.

There's also the issue of burning calories. A sprint of a few minutes, or run of ten minutes, these won't burn as many calories as a jog of 30 minutes, or a walk of a couple of hours. If you want to maximise your calorie-burning during your fitness-building exercise, then a jog or quick walk is better than a sprint or run. A jog takes us less of your day, though, so there's the compromise.

Lastly, there's what you can handle as an untrained person. Sprinting and running take a lot more out of you than jogging or walking. You're much more likely to injure yourself - and injuries aren't just popped ligaments, they're things like you described, being in pain and knackered today after your sprint/run.

First you must take your strength and fitness levels from untrained up to novice, then you'll be able to handle things like sprinting. Build the foundations, then you can decide what kind of structure to put on top of those foundations.

 

[Shrek]

Kyle.. Marion Jones looks like that because she takes / took copious amounts of Steroids, what a bad example you have used. They have low body fat because they take exogonous hormones with turns them into fat burning muscle sparing machines. I am tempted to delete your post.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

I just whacked up the first sprinter who came up clearly on google image search. I've now changed it to Melinda Gainsford-Taylor, an Aussie sprinter. She has never been accused of illicit drug use.

I know of exactly zero walkers who've been accused of using steroids, I presume you were talking only of sprinters.

It is true that people who train in sprinting and those who train in walking reduce their body fat, in part by means of that training. And that was the point. High heart rate, middle heart rate, so long as it's higher than resting, you burn fat.

If you're going to go around deleting long and thoughtful posts which attempt to help beginners in their understanding of physical training, then I don't think this will be a very useful forum for anyone.

 

[CaT_SPeW]

walking is a waste of time unless your obese and cant move. I dont think the OP is obese so something a little more intense is probably more up his alley

 

[Shrek]

I just whacked up the first sprinter who came up clearly on google image search. I've now changed it to Melinda Gainsford-Taylor, an Aussie sprinter. She has never been accused of illicit drug use.

I know of exactly zero walkers who've been accused of using steroids, I presume you were talking only of sprinters.

It is true that people who train in sprinting and those who train in walking reduce their body fat, in part by means of that training. And that was the point. High heart rate, middle heart rate, so long as it's higher than resting, you burn fat.

If you're going to go around deleting long and thoughtful posts which attempt to help beginners in their understanding of physical training, then I don't think this will be a very useful forum for anyone.

Your posts are greatly appreciated Kyle but we must be careful of posting up drug assisted atletes to use as role models or goals.

Melinda, yes she never tested positive for drugs but still an Olympic athlete and I will always be skeptical of Olympic athletes being clean esp in track and field.