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Gym versus nutrition

P

PTC

Member
This is more for the newer guys, as most know or understand the difference.

I still get pm's and emails on a daily basis, with lifters telling me they want to get bigger, leaner, toned, buff etc.....could I please go over their program.

I have no problem going over there program, but most have a massive problem with my answer.

Now, the following is not a controlled experiment, I'm not interested in them. Lifting, getting heavier, stronger and getting leaner are simple things, complicated by those that cant get good results.

I have 2 guys that are extreme and remarkably similar. Oxymoron, perhaps, but read on.

Max started serious lifting in September 2008. Before that he piss farted around.

Dave started serious lifting in December 2008. Before that he piss farted around.

They both began with near identical strength, 60kg bench, 140kg deadlift, 100kg + squats.

They both do exactly the same exercises. They both train at exactly the same gym. They both have exactly the same coach. They both enter exactly the same comps. There lifts are now almost exactly the same. They have both been training without a break for neary exactly the same amount of time.

Max in comps 170/105/215 total 490kg
Dave in comps 175/100/210 total 485kg

So these guys have lifted for just shy of 2 years in the same gym, doing the same program, supervised by the same coach, and have achieved the same strength gains.

So why do they look more different than any other two human beings on the planet.

I know they started at different points, but 2 years of training?

I know I'm beating my head against a wall trying to convince people that food is the key to altering your appearance, but I wont stop trying.

For those that dont know, Max started at 61kg back then, Dave was 108kg

Max is now 77kg and Dave is 105kg.

I'd love to post pics, but Max wont pose for one.

Giving me your training program is near pointless if your goal is to look buff, I need to know how you eat first.

If you think your eating enough, your not. If your enjoying your meals, you wont gain weight. If you count a protein drink as a meal, your failing. If you dont eat natures foods, your failing. If you buy supplements other than whey, casein and fish oils, your failing. If your buying NoExplode or Creatine, your not in thos for the long haul anyway.

Too simplistic you say? This shit is mental, not physical. Keep telling me why your not imroving, and I know you've convinced yourself your a failure.

The guys that make the most progress keep telling me why they cant fail.

Replacing food with supplements, except before bed and after lifting, speaks of convenience.

If you have a perfect diet, train really hard, and are making good progress by MY standards, then feel free to take any supplement you like.

BCAA's during training, dextrose in your post work out drinks, glutamine by the bucketload after a heavy session.

These individuals though are very few and far between. The reason I look down at the guy benching 50kg taking creatine is he thinks it will make him bigger and stronger, thats why he bought it after all.

Like I said, its your mental state that determines how you'll go.

Lifting weights makes you stronger, not creatine. Understand this and your on your way.

If you see a guy deadlifting 250kg, and he takes creatine, dont think he deadlifts 250kg because of the creatine, so you'll copy him. Copy his deadlift first, THEN creatine.
 
Max has posed

Max "the hulk" - you know the one lol
And dave squatting with that rank face haha.

Put those pics up, and let everybody else decide if nutrition is key :D€.
 
Markos,

Gold as usual mate. Thanks!!

PTC said:
If you think your eating enough, your not. If your enjoying your meals, you wont gain weight.
Click to expand...

Guilty and guilty. I'm learning to force feed myself and am upping my calories after burning out a bit a couple of times recently.

PTC said:
If you count a protein drink as a meal, your failing.Replacing food with supplements, except before bed and after lifting, speaks of convenience. If you dont eat natures foods, your failing.
Click to expand...

Again, guilty. Its too easy to throw down 60gm of WPC in the afternoon as meal 4 instead of a proper all in meal of natures goods. Need to correct this too.

PTC said:
If you buy supplements other than whey, casein and fish oils, your failing. If your buying NoExplode or Creatine, your not in this for the long haul anyway.
Click to expand...

Pretty good here, that's the exact supplement list I use, but I do add Creatine too which you've come down hard on. Its cheap and proven to do something so I use it but not at the expense of eating as much as I can and working out as hard as I can on the big three lifts. Not sure why you say Creatine users aren't in it for the long haul. I've been at this for twenty years and intend to be at it for another twenty.

Thanks for your insight mate, always well received.

Stepping up to the plate...
Mike
 
I have often thought about this, it's a good topic.
At one stage a felt the workout was the key
For a young person whatever that is will naturally increase lean muscle mass if their nutrition is sound, as we age the process insipidly changes.
More and more for me it's becoming apperant that the workout is becoming less intense, the duration is shorter and recovery is longer and I have become more careful with what type of food goes in my mouth.
At my stage in life, the workout is key, the rest looks after itself, what I've eaten throughout the week is far more important than the pre and post meal.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
Its the most frustrating thing trying to explain to people its what they shove in their mouths that is making them fat, not the amount of work they do at the gym.

I work with a guy that would be easily 160kg at about 5'10ish and he was talking to me about how i have changed myself. First thing he asks me is how many days per week i work out. 3-4 doing weights i reply. He then asks if i do any running. Some HIIT every now and then i reply.

He the goes on to tell me he doesnt have the time to work out 3-4 times per week. And then he congratulates me on my achievement so far.

I let a few minutes pass and then inform him of how its more important what foods you are eating rather than how many times you are lifting in a gym. He says he doesnt have the money to eat healthy...

I tell him about Tabata and how it would only use 4 minutes of his time and that if he cant find 4 minutes in his day then he isnt really worried about losing the kilos and until he is, nothing will change.

He then had a sook for the rest of the day...

/end rant.
 
BigJim said:
Its the most frustrating thing trying to explain to people its what they shove in their mouths that is making them fat, not the amount of work they do at the gym.

I work with a guy that would be easily 160kg at about 5'10ish and he was talking to me about how i have changed myself. First thing he asks me is how many days per week i work out. 3-4 doing weights i reply. He then asks if i do any running. Some HIIT every now and then i reply.

He the goes on to tell me he doesnt have the time to work out 3-4 times per week. And then he congratulates me on my achievement so far.

I let a few minutes pass and then inform him of how its more important what foods you are eating rather than how many times you are lifting in a gym. He says he doesnt have the money to eat healthy...

I tell him about Tabata and how it would only use 4 minutes of his time and that if he cant find 4 minutes in his day then he isnt really worried about losing the kilos and until he is, nothing will change.

He then had a sook for the rest of the day...

/end rant.
Click to expand...


People like this are not even worth talking to.
 
Have a mate at the same gym, bit shorter than me, 61kg. He busts his arse at the gym 4-5 times a week and never gets any bigger. Strong though, he can bench 110kg x2. He asked me what exercises to do to get bigger legs and bigger shoulders (he likes my development in those areas), and what supplements I take (nothing, except fish oil atm). I asked him what his diet is like. He eats 3 meals a day and doesn't like food & eating very much. I asked him where does he think muscles come from, the air he breathes in at the gym? Blank face.

I've had that same conversation with him 3 times now. I've given up. The guy has a PhD and going to do a Master in another field, but is dumb as a rock when it comes to this.
 
good post Markos. i thought i could out train my diet but never has it been more evident to me that i cant, i cracked down on my diet 6 weeks ago and have dropped 6 kilos and 10cm off my waist, my 6 pack is becoming visible for the first time in years and it wont be long until my lifts are back up where they were when i was 10kg heavier last september.
 
Dancelot it is obvious you just have better genetics than him, it could not be that you probably eat 3 times as much as he does.

And who the **** doesn't like eating????????????

And Jim, I have seen a lot of people like this. They like eating shit, they like being lazy so they make excuses even to themselves. Oh I do not have anytime to workout, I do not have any money to eat healthy that is just code for I do not want to do something strenuous it is easier to sit on my ass and I like eating this fatty and sugary stuff I do not want to eat that. He feels bad because people tell him he is unhealthy and we idolise healthy looking individuals. If we took away outside pressures he would just be sitting on his ass all day eating McD's. Now I am not saying everyone who is fat is like this but the ones those people use different excuses such as I really can not get motivated (usually depressed people use this and this excuse is for everything they do not just exercise and healthy eating).
 
I have actually saved a lot of money since I started eating clean and preparing most of the meals. A significant part of that is from not drinking.

dave said:
Dancelot it is obvious you just have better genetics than him, it could not be that you probably eat 3 times as much as he does.
Click to expand...

Funny thing is, I eat 3 times as much as he does to LOSE fat. Wasn't looking at gaining / bulking.

And who the **** doesn't like eating????????????
Click to expand...

The twigs curling furiously in front of the mirror at the gym. They eat like little girls and can fit in little girls' jeans.
 
dave said:
Dancelot it is obvious you just have better genetics than him, it could not be that you probably eat 3 times as much as he does.

And who the **** doesn't like eating????????????

And Jim, I have seen a lot of people like this. They like eating shit, they like being lazy so they make excuses even to themselves. Oh I do not have anytime to workout, I do not have any money to eat healthy that is just code for I do not want to do something strenuous it is easier to sit on my ass and I like eating this fatty and sugary stuff I do not want to eat that. He feels bad because people tell him he is unhealthy and we idolise healthy looking individuals. If we took away outside pressures he would just be sitting on his ass all day eating McD's. Now I am not saying everyone who is fat is like this but the ones those people use different excuses such as I really can not get motivated (usually depressed people use this and this excuse is for everything they do not just exercise and healthy eating).
Click to expand...

Hit the nail on the head! - good post!

I do feel like maccas now tho lol
 
BigJim said:
I work with a guy that would be easily 160kg at about 5'10ish [...]

I tell him about Tabata and how it would only use 4 minutes of his time
Click to expand...
Actually, Tabata might use the last 4 minutes of his life. You need a good base of cardiovascular fitness before attempting interval training. At 160kg and 180cm, he is very unlikely to have that necessary fitness.
 
Great post ptc, yet again good to read. Once I get back into the swing of things I'm gonna try your training program and should definitely see some big improvements.
 
This sums up Big Jims work mate I think, and a lot of overweight people for that matter.

[YOUTUBE]VKs0oEIVOck[/YOUTUBE]
 
Great post Markos... Wish i'd known that when i first started.



PTC said:
This is more for the newer guys, as most know or understand the difference.

I still get pm's and emails on a daily basis, with lifters telling me they want to get bigger, leaner, toned, buff etc.....could I please go over their program.

I have no problem going over there program, but most have a massive problem with my answer.

Now, the following is not a controlled experiment, I'm not interested in them. Lifting, getting heavier, stronger and getting leaner are simple things, complicated by those that cant get good results.

I have 2 guys that are extreme and remarkably similar. Oxymoron, perhaps, but read on.

Max started serious lifting in September 2008. Before that he piss farted around.

Dave started serious lifting in December 2008. Before that he piss farted around.

They both began with near identical strength, 60kg bench, 140kg deadlift, 100kg + squats.

They both do exactly the same exercises. They both train at exactly the same gym. They both have exactly the same coach. They both enter exactly the same comps. There lifts are now almost exactly the same. They have both been training without a break for neary exactly the same amount of time.

Max in comps 170/105/215 total 490kg
Dave in comps 175/100/210 total 485kg

So these guys have lifted for just shy of 2 years in the same gym, doing the same program, supervised by the same coach, and have achieved the same strength gains.

So why do they look more different than any other two human beings on the planet.

I know they started at different points, but 2 years of training?

I know I'm beating my head against a wall trying to convince people that food is the key to altering your appearance, but I wont stop trying.

For those that dont know, Max started at 61kg back then, Dave was 108kg

Max is now 77kg and Dave is 105kg.

I'd love to post pics, but Max wont pose for one.

Giving me your training program is near pointless if your goal is to look buff, I need to know how you eat first.

If you think your eating enough, your not. If your enjoying your meals, you wont gain weight. If you count a protein drink as a meal, your failing. If you dont eat natures foods, your failing. If you buy supplements other than whey, casein and fish oils, your failing. If your buying NoExplode or Creatine, your not in thos for the long haul anyway.

Too simplistic you say? This shit is mental, not physical. Keep telling me why your not imroving, and I know you've convinced yourself your a failure.

The guys that make the most progress keep telling me why they cant fail.

Replacing food with supplements, except before bed and after lifting, speaks of convenience.

If you have a perfect diet, train really hard, and are making good progress by MY standards, then feel free to take any supplement you like.

BCAA's during training, dextrose in your post work out drinks, glutamine by the bucketload after a heavy session.

These individuals though are very few and far between. The reason I look down at the guy benching 50kg taking creatine is he thinks it will make him bigger and stronger, thats why he bought it after all.

Like I said, its your mental state that determines how you'll go.

Lifting weights makes you stronger, not creatine. Understand this and your on your way.

If you see a guy deadlifting 250kg, and he takes creatine, dont think he deadlifts 250kg because of the creatine, so you'll copy him. Copy his deadlift first, THEN creatine.
Click to expand...
 
I'm slowly convincing one of the young trainees at work that he needs to be eating more after complaining of being stuck at 80 kg (6'2" ish), despite "PT four times per week and gym after work 5 days per week".

Day 1
Me: "What did you have for breakfast?"
Trainee: "Nothing, we had a room inspection this morning."
Me: "There's your problem..."

Day 2
Me: "What did you have for breakfast?"
Trainee: "2 bowls of corn flakes and 3 pieces of toast!"
Me: "Children eat corn flakes. Eat some meat and eggs"

Day 3
Me: "What did you have for breakfast?"
Trainee: "Bacon, eggs and a protein shake!"
Me: "Getting better. What are you having for morning tea?"
Trainee: "A protein shake!"
I just shake my head.

I think I may actually convince this guy, as long as I can get him squatting more and heavier (he's pissing about with 60 kg once per week three weeks after I taught his class to squat).
 
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