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Experiences with Wendlers 5/3/1

Stevo82

New member
Just wondering what other peoples experiences were with using 5/3/1 compared to Ripptoes or PTC's seeing that the big four are done only once a week. I have been on Fadi's begginer program for around 6 weeks and I have had good gains's around 4-5kgs of mass with about the same or less BF, but looking for something different. I feel like my legs arn't recovering enough lately (4 sets of 8) three times at week 120kg. Would Wendlers be a good option? thoughts?
 
Ok Riped from another forum

Jim Wendler's 5/3/1

One mesocycle lasts 16 workouts, or a little over 5 weeks.

Each mesocycle has 4 microcycles or "waves".
Wave 1. Warmup, 75%x5, 80%x5, 85%x5
Wave 2. Warmup, 80%x3, 85%x3, 90%x3
Wave 3. Warmup, 75%x5, 85%x3, 95%x1
Wave 4. (deload) - 60%x5, 65%x5, 70%x5

Note: Wendler suggests that you underestimate your loading percentages by subtracting 10% from your 1RM when calculating weights; He also suggests that on the last set you can do an "all out rep max" lifting that weight as many times as possible. The goal is to get at least the specified number of reps with that weight and anything beyond that can be considered the dividends that your efforts have payed out. Only attempt extra reps on the final heavy set.

Each wave has 4 workouts:
A. Squat + assistance
B. Bench press + assistance
C. Deadlift + assistance
D. Military press + assistance

Wendler recommends 3 workouts per week. Example:
Week 1: A1, B1, C1
Week 2: D1, A2, B2
Week 3: C2, D2, A3
Week 4: B3, C3, D3
Week 5: A4, B4, C4
Week 6: D4, etc. ...

Optionally there is a second, less intensive, loading parameter:
Wave 1. Warmup, 65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x5
Wave 2. Warmup, 70%x3, 80%x3, 90%x3
Wave 3. Warmup, 75%x5, 85%x3, 95%x1
Wave 4 (Deload) - 60%x5, 65%x5, 70%x5

Substitutions

The main lifts can be substituted with variations (typically in subsequent mesocycles):
Squat - box squat, squat with bands, front squat, etc.
Bench press - board press, floor press, incline, etc.
Deadlift - rack pulls, deficit DL, etc.
Military press - push press, incline press, etc.

Assistance Work

Assistance work depends on your goals:
Base - just do the main lifts
Strength - just do 1-2 supplementary lifts, typically 3-5 sets x 6-20 reps
Bodybuilder - 3-4 supplementary lifts, including some isolation work, done for higher volume, typically 3-4 sets x 10-20 reps

Here is the "Strength" template assistance work from the book:

Squat Day

Squat: 5x10x50%
Lug Curls: 5x10

Bench Press Day

Bench Press: 5x10x50%
DB Rows: 5x10

Deadlift Day

Deadlift: 5x8x50%
Hanging Leg Raises: 5x12

Mil. Press Day

Mil. Press: 5x10x50%
Chins: 5 sets to failure.

Here is the bodybuilder template assistance work from the book:

Squat Day

Hack Squat: 4 sets of 10-20 reps
Leg Extensions: 4 sets of 10-30 reps
Leg Curls: 4 sets of 10-15 reps
Weighted Sit-ups: 4 sets of 10 reps

or

Leg Press – 4 sets of 10-20 reps
Leg Extensions – 4 sets of 10-30 reps
Leg Curls – 4 sets of 10-15 reps
Weighted Sit-ups – 4 sets of 10 reps

Bench Press Day

DB Bench Press: 4 sets of 10-20 reps
Dips (weighted): 4 sets of 8-15 reps
Fly's: 4 sets of 12 reps
Triceps Pushdowns: 4 sets of 10-20 reps

or

DB Incline Press – 4 sets of 10-20 reps
Dips (weighted) – 4 sets of 8-15 reps
Fly's – 4 sets of 12 reps
Triceps Extensions – 4 sets of 10-20 reps

Deadlift Day

Chins: 4 sets of 10-12 reps
DB Rows: 4 sets of 15 reps/arm
Back Raises: 4 sets of 10 reps (with bar behind neck)
Hanging Leg Raises: 4 sets of 15 reps

or

Lat Pulls – 4 sets of 10-12 reps
Bent Over Rows – 4 sets of 15 reps/arm
Reverse Hyperextensions – 4 sets of 12 reps
Hanging Leg Raises – 4 sets of 15 reps

Military Press Day

DB Military Press: 4 sets of 10 reps
Upright Rows: 4 sets of 10 reps
Side Laterals: 4 sets of 10-15 reps
Barbell Curls: 4 sets of 10 reps

or

Hammer Machine Military – 4 sets of 10 reps
Rope Upright Rows – 4 sets of 10 reps
Rear Laterals – 4 sets of 10-15 reps
DB Curls – 4 sets of 10 reps


These are just suggestions, what you do will depend on your own judgement, goals, experience, work capacity, training style, etc.
 
I would feel quite strange squatting, leg curling, and calling it a day.

Can't argue with results, though. Jim is smashing pb's, there are numerous people using this program, and Oliver was telling me the other day that DeFranco had adopted this program for a lot of his athletes. Dunno if there's a stronger testimonial than that.

I will add that I vaguely remember reading somewhere that this program was suited to someone with a couple of years training under their belt, but I will let someone more familiar with it comment concretely on this unless I can dig it up.
 
See that looks to confusing i didnt even read it, does anyone else find that?

I see rear laterals and side laterals then its time to turn the page.
 
Just wondering what other peoples experiences were with using 5/3/1 compared to Ripptoes or PTC's seeing that the big four are done only once a week. I have been on Fadi's begginer program for around 6 weeks and I have had good gains's around 4-5kgs of mass with about the same or less BF, but looking for something different. I feel like my legs arn't recovering enough lately (4 sets of 8) three times at week 120kg. Would Wendlers be a good option? thoughts?


you recover from food not from training...

Your food itnake is inadequate or your diet is not sufficient if you are not coping with the workload..

Could be alot of things.. For starters drop caffeine if you are taking it.
 
Noobs, how about you recover from training with food. Also neurological recover is a bit different to metabolic recovery. Food will help but too much training and not enough rest will be detrimental. Unless lifting is your job and you get all the help in the world to recover then eating enough food is a bit limited in an explanation of recovery.

5/3/1 simple for you: Use 90% of your 1RM to workout these loads. 100kg squat would be down to a 90kg squat and then percentages worked from there.

Deadlift, Squat, Bench, MP. 1 Day for each add assistance work (just like PPP). Do 3 days per week (WK1: DL, MP, SQ WK2: BP, DL, MP and so on) or do 4 if you really want.

Week 1. Warmup, 75%x5, 80%x5, 85%x5
Week 2. Warmup, 80%x3, 85%x3, 90%x3
Week 3. Warmup, 75%x5, 85%x3, 95%x1
Week 4. (deload) - 60%x5, 65%x5, 70%x5

Go all out on the last set.
 
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Noobs, how about you recover from training with food. Also neurological recover is a bit different to metabolic recovery. Food will help but too much training and not enough rest will be detrimental. Unless lifting is your job and you get all the help in the world to recover then eating enough food is a bit limited in an explanation of recovery.

5/3/1 simple for you: Use 90% of your 1RM to workout these loads. 100kg squat would be down to a 90kg squat and then percentages worked from there.

Deadlift, Squat, Bench, MP. 1 Day for each add assistance work (just like PPP). Do 3 days per week (WK1: DL, MP, SQ WK2: BP, DL, MP and so on) or do 4 if you really want.

Week 1. Warmup, 75%x5, 80%x5, 85%x5
Week 2. Warmup, 80%x3, 85%x3, 90%x3
Week 3. Warmup, 75%x5, 85%x3, 95%x1
Week 4. (deload) - 60%x5, 65%x5, 70%x5

Go all out on the last set.


But if he isnt eating enough food then he wont recover no matter how little mental stress he has.


That makes more sense, I saw side laterals and got scared i was going to turn homosexual...
 
I did the program for 2-3 cycles before exams got in the way.

Noobs is a spaz, its shit simple, and the waived volume allows you to really push yourself when it comes time for your 1RMs. Its a very long term program because it moves between high and low reps.

I'd buy the ebook at $20 - the Triumvirate method (main lift and two accessories) is probably the most effective version of the program.

If you were running it I'd suggest to run the 3 day (I got good results on the four but it was very taxing) and do 3x10 for accessory work rather than 5x10 if you dont want to have to use percentages.

For a natural lifter who doesnt have the time for sheiko programs I'd say 5/3/1 or PPP are your best bets.

I would feel quite strange squatting, leg curling, and calling it a day.

Thats the boring but big template which is only run by the keyboard warriors.

I will add that I vaguely remember reading somewhere that this program was suited to someone with a couple of years training under their belt, but I will let someone more familiar with it comment concretely on this unless I can dig it up.

x2

I'd say this is an intermediate level program once a person reaches a 140/100/180 total.
 
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I am doing a 5x5 compound routine now, I might give 5/3/1 a go in 3 months time, so I can get an idea of a few 1RM's.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
Sorry for bumping an old thread but I wanted to add my experiences.

I started 5/3/1 late last year to rebuild my strength after a 3 month hiatus from lifting while backpacking in Europe. I returned to Oz with significantly dimished lifts (esp. squat and bench) and carrying a little more pudding than I was happy with.

I ran it for 6 cycles and rebuilt my bench from 120 to 160kg, my squat from 140 to 200kg and my deadlift from 200 to 230kg. I also started doing MPs again for the first time in a year and went from 85 to 100kg. If my shoulder problems hadn't resurfaced I would still be doing it to this day, although not for deads. High reps deads are hellish for me and not worth the suffering. I would swap 5/3/1 for a lower repping program like the Ortmayer cycle I am doing now or a 5/3/1 singles variation I have been looking at.

I really enjoyed the program and was happy with the results I got from it. Wendler focuses on training efficiency in his book and I really recommend the triumvirate and big but boring assistance templates. IMO nothing improves your squat like more squats. Also, deadlifting aside, the high rep max sets were really great for muscular endurance and were a good change from the ME singles of my former Westside template.

Thats the boring but big template which is only run by the keyboard warriors.

Please explain?
 
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