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DISCUSSION: Should dole participants be drug tested?

Do you think there should be drug testing for those on the dole.

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 58.8%

  • No

    Votes: 2 11.8%

  • The government should focus on more productive things...

    Votes: 5 29.4%
  • Total voters
    17
Sticky said:
It's not their money.
It's our money, that we are giving to them to help them out of trouble, not to spend on speed.
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Just because people make stupid choices does not mean they are any less entitled to the freedom to make those choices than those who you perceive as making the 'right' choices.

You start chipping away at the rights of dole bludgers you are eroding all of our freedom. Better to have a democratic system abused by a minority than a totalatarian system controlled by a few.

You need to look at it as a broader social issue, yes the system isn't ideal but the alternative opens the floodgates to all sorts of abuse not to mention the cost any money you save on dole payments the bureaucracy is going to chew up administering the drug testing and other bullshit associated with the programme.

For the record I have never received a welfare payment of any kind in my entire life.
 
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Funny idea, if you had to test negative to the internet as well I would imagine a couple of my old friends would get jobs. They wouldn't have anything else to do, otherwise. I guess this is the general idea? Take away their prime motivators for holidaying 24/7? Drugs inhibit as well, to a certain degree, but I think mainly it just gives them something to do.
 
Me and my brother have worked since we can remember, collecting cans and paper runs then into part time jobs at 14.
At 24 he became terminally I'll and turned to centre link for financial support after he sold every single item he owned with value. He was entitled to cheap medication and $80 a week. He even had to fight for a disabled sticker for his car.

People who are well and can work, or mothers who have 5 kids get paid a fcukload more and its a robbery!
 
kaz said:
People who are well and can work, or mothers who have 5 kids get paid a fcukload more and its a robbery!
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Yeah its bullshit. They get every entitlement under the sun yet if you work and get into a bit of trouble you need to jump through hoops to get any help.
 

You think it's a dole bludgers right to use money to buy illegal drugs?

That's fucking stupid.
 
Sticky said:
You think it's a dole bludgers right to use money to buy illegal drugs?

That's fucking stupid.
Click to expand...

Mate I will dumb it down for you.

I think it is their right to spend their welfare as they see fit. They are free thinking individuals over the age of 18. Thats me looking at it as a broader social issue namely freedom of choice. But i will elaborate a little more on why this whole argument is dumb - What you are saying is that drug users have less rights than non-drug users. That is stupid.

This proposal would mean an individual can piss their dole money away, blow it on the pokies, smoke a million cigarettes but if they smoke some grass or drop a pinger they should lose their dole.

What makes one vice any worse than the next. It's okay to be an alcho or a degenerate gambler on welfare cause it's legal but not okay to smoke a cone cause it is illegal. Seems a bit flawed to me.
 
People have a right to spend THEIR money anyway they see fit but if they are going to take government/taxpayers dollars there should be obligations/restrictions to meet in return for not being left to starve.

In the US model which this country seems to be moving towards there is no dole and if they don't have a job, no healthcare and if they are damn lucky they get food stamps (depends on which state).

Personally I prefer a system similar to what we have now but it needs to have the middle class welfare removed and stop funding non-government schools.
And more money for education and health. With a much larger focus on prevention than cure.


NightFallTech said:
Legalise the drugs so they are cheap and a lot of the crime will go away....
Penalise anti-social behaviour instead.

So you don't get in trouble for the bag of meth, but if you vandalise something because you're high... they throw the book at you.
Click to expand...

I agree with legalising marijuana but not anything else.

Have it government supplied via chemists or any other shops with regulated "dosages"/amounts like cigarettes freely available for over 18 and also in other forms for medical use (prescription only)

Lot of medical uses - cancer and ms patients , vision problems

Save the cops and courts time and money for more important things and keep people out of the legal system.
 
Isn't the fact they're illegal a non-issue? They're just trying to remove a passtime to motivate people to work? And make the rest of us happy cause we don't have to imagine dole bludgers having a 'great time' at our expense. Not that I think drugs = a great time, long term, but that's another discussion.

I think the bottom line is people must contribute and prove they're trying to obtain employment, if they're not employed. This isn't working so here's this new idea. So long as they're doing that I dont really care what they spend their free hours doing, though if it's doing drugs to the degree that they're inhibited from ever being able to obtain employment (which is sometimes the case) it's an issue. How you separate the bad from the good here though...
 
What bugs me is not only the taxes people pay that may get abused and used incorrectly by those on benefits (which does royally piss me off, but I won't get into that amount), but the amount of $'s wasted on running Centrelink itself. Government ain't efficient, and the more people are able to live of benefits, the more the cost of Centrelink is added on top of the benefit payments.

We need benefits to be there for people who need them, not people who choose to have them. Unfortunately a lot of people 'choose' to be on benefits by not helping themselves.

I would support this drug testing IF it genuinely helped some people get off benefits.

Get people off benefits has a double effect - we don't need to pay for their drugs and ciggies and booze, and we don't need to pay a bunch of people to work at Centrelink.
 
But there is a 'work for the dole' scheme in place isn't there? The system, whilst not perfect, is making 'bludging' a whole lot harder.

Single parents pension & Disability pension, whilst government benefits, are not 'the dole'. But in saying that, they've drastically changed legislation in both, to get single mothers & those with unencumbered disabilities back into the workforce slowly.

Single parents can only be on the single parent pension until their child is 8 years of age & they remain the primary caregiver to that child. With the common custody agreements these days being 'shared' custody, rather than 'sole' custody, it means most primary caregivers get a 'part' pension & are encouraged to work a certain amount of hours per week.

this of course does not account for the 'breeders' who just continue knocking out kids to stay on the pension for as long as possible. And whilst we hear alot of press coverage of this issue, they are in the minority. Once the youngest child is 8 years of age. The single parents benefit ceases. These people are given notice 12 months before that occurs & are offered assistance to help upskill or cross skill to secure employment.

Whilst the system isn't perfect, I think its made great strides to get rid of the 'bludgers' of yesterday.

The single parent, disability & old age pension are different matters entirely. And most of the 'pension cheats' come from those brackets, not the 'dole' or those on 'newstart allowance'.

Its a social allowance to help the less fortunate in our society for a period of time. I think welfare itself is necessary & beneficial for many.

But I do remember returning from abroad with a 2yo child & people telling me to go on the single parents pension. If you have small kids & you're single, you don't qualify for the 'dole' your automatically sent to the single parents benefit. I was entitled to $502 a fortnight.

How the fuck anyone lives on that kind of money is baffling to me. I got a job quick smart after exhausting my savings & claimed no benefits.

The point is, all welfare payments are shit money. Unless you're a single mother with 7 kids under the age of 8. Then you're raking it in lol

But you have 9 people to house & clothe & feed too I guess?

I don't even know what the dole payments are anymore. But if they want to smoke weed or buy cigarettes, who cares? I do believe there is a work for the dole scheme in place. Where these people are upskilled or cross skilled & actually really helped to gain employment in any chosen field. Its next to impossible these days, for people to just sit on the dole for 15 years like many used to, a generation or two ago.

An acquaintence got done recently for earning an income whilst on the dole. It happened 7 years ago, but he went to court for it last month. They may not get you straight away, but they will find you & get you eventually lol

Lucky for him he just had to pay the money back, no conviction recorded, as it was such a small amount.

I think often times, the cycle of being on the dole is generational & they figure its money for free? But the government has made great strides forward to change that mindset & those who abuse the system.

The American model is shit. Born from the fact that they simply can't afford to look after those in need of help in their country. No old age pension, no single parent benefit, no healthcover, its a tragedy that so many people in 2012 are existing below the poverty line in a Western country...would rather live in Zambia than the U.S. lol
 
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That's another topic Bella that there is no solution to.

This op is just splinter of a huge problem of overcrowding and overpopulation, drugs have always been with us, it's just that there are more of us and the more civilized we become the worse it gets.

Stupid topic
 
Haha Captain Freedom.

Or quoting him as Blain in Predator " This stuff will make you a god damned sexual Tyrannosaurus, just like me. "
 

Agree. Over populated. Too many reliant on assistance & yet its hard to actually get jobs for the most qualified of people? Gone are the days of dole bludgers refusing to go out & sweep the streets or clean toilets, these people are now forced into non-paid enployment in unskilled area's to qualify them for the benefit.

You are right Andy, there is no real solution to the issue. Which is why in democratic societies, money is absorbed trying to manage the many variables without completely bleeding the government with the aging demographic of our society. Will be interesting to see how different things are in 20 years time based on the aging population of our country...
 

You know alcohol and cigarettes are legal right?
Which means they get bought from a store, which pays taxes, and keeps employees in a job....

You know, at least in my region anyway, some of the taxes from gambling get put into local football clubs, and even goes out to grants for athletes?
I just got $500 for my worlds trip funded from this pool of money.

Do you know how much money approximately the Australian economy looses to the black market every year?

Whilst pissing money up the wall is no more productive than smoking bongs, at least some of the money goes back into the economy.
 

I fail to see where your going with that at some point the drug money gets put back into the economy as well. Tattoos, WRX's, bumbags, harleys, solicitors there are entire legitimate industries getting trade from illegitimate earnings and all that shit gets taxed and put back into the economy.

Why not just legalise and tax drugs liberal countries in Europe have done exactly that with good results.

Anyway Sticky it's not something me and you are ever gonna agree on the best part of living in a democracy is we are both entitled to our opinion and can vote accordingly come election time.
 
given the high rates of drug use in Aussie society (regardless of employment situation), why should people stop taking drugs just because they either stop being employed, or start looking for work?

thats like saying "you can't buy fast food because you're on the dole" (which would also be a good idea but... )
 
Consolidate public housing at Moe. Build a fence around it and electrify it. No need to drug tet them. Put the animals in a cage.
 
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